Mafia Cards: Help finalize card list and sample setups

[mith]

Rules, yeah. I've got my sister looking at the additional modifier icons we need (or possibly just redesigning them more like the original text-based rectangular version, since we're not printing actual stickers any more), and DGB sent the Politician artwork I was missing (which we'll use for the "Lynchpin" modified Godfather, or whatever it ends up being called). Even with that, we'll probably add at least the "Dependent" modifier to the sheet (I don't think using the last slot on Dependent Goon is the best use of it, if we already have the Politician).

We have some of the text in the Art forum thread, but I don't think we have any of the edits in. I'll see if I have anything more up to date saved somewhere.

[mith]

(I'm hoping to get all the cards and the tuckbox finalized by the end of next weekend, though that will depend on Adam's schedule.)

[Papa Zito]

1. We have some extra space in the deck, and I'd like to use some of that space to add a few cards with modifiers built in, since it looks like removable stickers won't be an option. Please suggest commonly used modified roles.

How viable would it be to create a secondary modifiers deck? Something like:

* One shot-
* Day-
* Even night -
* Odd night -
* Strong -
* (etc)
* (bunch of blanks)

You'd probably need multiples of some of these. Then you can just pair a modifier card with the appropriate role card. If it's just a standard role with no modifier that player gets a blank. Or the blank could say "standard - " or "vanilla - " or something I dunno.

[callforjudgement]

I suspect it'd need too many cards, in addition to making modless play nearly impossible.

[mith]

Looking like we may work on this tomorrow night, so last call for feedback on the last modified-card slot.

[mith]

New modifier icons:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B15tX ... VySHEtM213

Bottom rows, from left to right: 1-shot Strongman, 1-shot Bulletproof, Politician

[mith]

Here is the current layout for the setup cards:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Gij ... sp=sharing

6 double-sided cards, each side has no overlapping player counts (so you could mix these up and flip them around and then draw until you find one with a matching count, if you want a random setup). An alternative is to group them by size, so you can just find the one card with your game size on it and then pick a setup another way. Thoughts?

If someone could take a look and make sure I haven't screwed anything up in copying and formatting, that would be great. We may also have room for a couple more of the more compact (one line per alignment, no/minimal extra rules) setups if anyone has recommendations for

common, tested

setups we're missing.

[mith]

(We postponed until Sunday; didn't get away from work early enough last night.)

[callforjudgement]

I'm a little surprised to see C9 on there. It's known to be highly scumsided (around 70% in terms of what happened in newbie games in practice). I guess it might nonetheless be appropriate for face-to-face because town finds things easier there. (Thinking about it, Original Newbie is probably more balanced if you want that sort of 7P; it's broken but has a more balanced winrate than C9 if both sides play optimally around the brokenness via pre-emptive fakeclaims and the like (and it's also more balanced than C9 if neither side knows the breaking strategies). That sort of setup is rare on mafiascum.net but more commonly played on other sites.)

Vengeful and C9 have awkwardly positioned line breaks, and would take up the same amount of space if you placed a linebreak between scum and town (like you do in most other setups). You probably also want to be consistent in whether there's a comma between scum and town in cases where there's a line break.

In Kids with Guns, it's unclear to me what

CI

is supposed to mean. You might want to spell it out.

Matrix6, F11, and Every Step You Take are missing commas at the end of their first lines (because the line break doesn't separate alignments in those setups).

Operating Room is missing a rule that's essential to the setup (that if more than one doctor targets a player, that player dies). Without the rule it is very scumsided; it's better to remove the setup altogether if it doesn't fit once the rule is explained, than it is to use the current version of it.

[mith]

The Operating Room setup here is not the same as the Operating Room setup on the wiki. (It was designed by quadz to fill some missing roles in our sample setups; it should probably be renamed since there is an existing setup with that name?).

The CI will be spelled out in the rulebook - the abbreviated modifiers are to save space on the reference cards. Will make a note to spell them out if we have room though.

C9 is, of course, dated, but I believe we have all the official newbie setups in the list. It's ok (not great) FTF.

Fixed comma/line-break consistency throughout.

[mith]

"Night 1: After Town lynch, Mafia kill Goon and Vanilla. After Mafia lynch, no night kill." <-- that read ok for squished Hotline rules?

[mith]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BlD ... sp=sharing

Sorting them by player count is probably the way to go over the randomizer thing - I can get them all on 5 cards this way.

[Untrod Tripod]

4 VT
2 Goon

Nightless. First dead scum gets a vengekill.

[mith]

I think you've suggested this before - it's covered in the Vengescum variable setup.

[mith]

If we do it in the second (ordered) format, we potentially have room for another variable count setup (I have a ton of those I can plug in as needed, but open to suggestions - a Vanilla Multiball might be nice if I can be bothered to figure out appropriate player counts). We could also fit another 8 player easily, and probably a 7 player as well (though we already have six of those). 5-6 and 10-13 are out of space unless we add a sixth card; 9 is out of space as well due to Matrix6 and F11 being so big, unless I compress them somehow (and again, we already have six). I could potentially compress Matrix6 by putting the actual matrix and adding a "pick a column or row" to the first line.

[Untrod Tripod]

I think you've suggested this before - it's covered in the Vengescum variable setup.

I must have missed that. Awesome. It's a great setup.

I'll try to think of others before the deadline. The list looks great!

[mith]

"Odd 7+ The Bus Stop
Use only Goon and Vanilla.
If the day 1 lynch is Mafia, Town wins.
X Goon, X+N Vanilla, where N=3, 5, or 7"

Too confusing? Trying to save space (this is a setup which has a really strange balance curve - for example, 5:8 is 39%, 4:9 is 35%, and 3:10 is 36%; 2:7 and 6:9 are both 40% - so doing it by player count is strange anyway.)

[mith]

I've added in White Flag Nightless for now, but will probably replace it with a Multiball if I have time to figure that out. Anyway want to do some research on Vanilla Multiball counts which have actually been run?

[mith]

Less Pressure is an option for another 8p setup, though we only have one Innocent Child card. Could use the CI Lover for the second, or 2 Masons and tell them to reveal at the start.

[mith]

8 Less Pressure
Setup: Masons reveal their cards.
If only 1 Mafia is alive, Town wins.
The Mafia only kill after a Mafia lynch.
3 Goon,
3 Vanilla, 2 Mason

Would that confuse anyone? It would be spelled out in the rulebook.

Or we can use the last slot on a second Innocent Child card. Or we can go the "1 Innocent Child, 1 CI Lover" route, which seems the most confusing option.

[callforjudgement]

I think that rulebook insert would work, and the two-Innocent-Children method would also work. I don't like the idea of using a CI lover as an Innocent Child stand-in.

(I also checked to see if we could just change the Innocent Children to Masons in the setup and still have a workable setup, but given that Less Pressure has probably been townsided in practice (4 town wins in 5 games is a small sample size but may be large enough), and that face-to-face play is also a townsided mechanic, making it more townsided by not force-revealing the Masons is probably a bad idea. If I were in a face-to-face group, I might try testing that setup with a VT over one of the Innocent Children as a method of making it a little less townsided, but I'm not sure I could recommend an untested change like that at a stage this late.)

[mith]

Tuckbox is done, modified cards are done... Sample setup cards may have to wait, we're running out of time today.

[mith]

Sister is looking into the setup cards, so some hope of having everything ready to go to print by the end of the week.

[mith]

This is the final(ish) deck list. Ended up going with a second Innocent Child, an extra blank, and dropping the "blurb" card in favor of a card with URL to the rulebook/other info (possibly with a QR as well).

Code: Select all

Count    Card
1        00-nar.jpg / 98-back-nar.jpg
5        01-mafia-goon.jpg
1        02-mafia-godfather.jpg
1        03-mafia-roleblocker.jpg
1        04-mafia-traitor.jpg
1        05-mafia-lover1.jpg
1        06-mafia-lover2.jpg
1        07-mafia-rolecop.jpg
1        08-mafia-tracker.jpg
1        09-mafia-ninja.jpg
1        10-mafia-doctor.jpg
1        11-mafia-vanillizer.jpg
1        12-mafia-suicidebomber.jpg
1        13-mafia-goon-1xstrongman.jpg
1        14-mafia-godfather-politician.jpg
1        15-mafia-roleblocker-evennight.jpg
1        16-mafia-traitor-recruitable.jpg
5        17-werewolf-werewolf.jpg
1        18-werewolf-alphawerewolf.jpg
1        19-selfaligned-lyncher.jpg
1        20-selfaligned-serialkiller.jpg
1        21-selfaligned-serialkiller-1xbulletproof.jpg
15       22-town-vanilla.jpg
1        23-town-cop.jpg
1        24-town-doctor.jpg
1        25-town-vigilante.jpg
1        26-town-roleblocker.jpg
1        27-town-tracker.jpg
1        28-town-watcher.jpg
1        29-town-jailkeeper.jpg
3        30-town-mason.jpg
1        31-town-lover1.jpg
1        32-town-lover2.jpg
1        33-town-rolecop.jpg
1        34-town-bodyguard.jpg
1        35-town-juveniledelinquent.jpg
2        36-town-innocentchild.jpg
1        37-town-paranoidgunowner.jpg
4        38-town-vengefultownie.jpg
1        39-town-supersaint.jpg
1        40-town-belovedprincess.jpg
1        41-town-treestump.jpg
1        42-town-seer.jpg
3        43-town-monk.jpg
1        44-town-vanilla-1xbulletproof.jpg
1        45-town-cop-1x.jpg
1        46-town-cop-macho.jpg
1        47-town-doctor-weak.jpg
1        48-town-vigilante-1x.jpg
1        49-town-vigilante-1xday.jpg
1        50-town-lover-confirmedinnocent.jpg
3        51-blank.jpg
1        60-setups-variable1.jpg / 61-setups-variable2.jpg
1        62-setups-fivesix.jpg / 63-setups-eight.jpg
1        64-setups-seven1.jpg / 65-setups-seven2.jpg
1        66-setups-nine1.jpg / 67-setups-nine2.jpg
1        68-setups-teneleven.jpg / 69-setups-twelvethirteen.jpg
1        70-urlqr.jpg

[callforjudgement]

Given that the list is now effectively final, is it worth unstickying this thread?

EDIT: Ah right, the setups themselves might not be final even if the role cards are.