Ethics of Scumplay

[BrainpanSonata]

I've seen players suggest that having to replace out because of technical difficulties (sudden loss of internet, broken computer, etc.) is a scumtell.

[Ircher]

It's not; voluntary replacement means nothing.

[Accountant]

Scum can and should do anything short of breaking site/game rules(note that if you're toxic to the point of getting players to replace out you are likely breaking rules).

[Accountant]

I've seen players suggest that having to replace out because of technical difficulties (sudden loss of internet, broken computer, etc.) is a scumtell.

They are wrong

[Alchemist21]

I think people who come here from other mafia sites would be more likely to think replacing out is a scumtell because it tends to be true on some other sites.

[Psyche]

when you're shitty to people in order to win a game, you're taking the game too seriously

[Gamma Emerald]

When you're shitty to people when you're winning a game, you're taking it WAY too seriously.

[callforjudgement]

I think people who come here from other mafia sites would be more likely to think replacing out is a scumtell because it tends to be true on some other sites.

First-game newbies often think that replacing out is a towntell (specifically VT tell), on the basis that scum is "more interesting to play" than town.

After a couple of games, they often change their minds. I think the "replacing out is a scumtell" opinion is most prevalent among players in the early SE range of experience.

[Titus]

I feel that if you genuinely believe what you say, then you're ok as scum to say it. I generally think scum should not try to create one v ones but are under no obligation to dispel it. I view scum as a show though so I hate if people are not having fun/making it personal.

[callforjudgement]

I don't think there's anything unethical about creating a 1v1 as scum. I do, however, think it's normally a bad move (unless you do it so often as town that it's rather lost its impact), and would be unwilling to do it unless I had a really good idea of how it helped my win condition. (I've only ever done it once, and it was in 5p lylo, which is probably the best time to do it. Even then, I considered it a high-risk move, and only did it because I decided that players would expect scum!me to go for the safe option.)

[kuribo]

That reminds me, I'm planning to institute the Bloodlust rule in games I moderate:

At any time, any player may choose to 1v1 any other player. Only votes for those two players will be counted. If a town-aligned player uses this on another town-aligned player at MYLO, town loses as there can be no scum lynch.

[Gamma Emerald]

That may be a cool gimmick for one game, but I would not like to have it be a constant factor.

[TierShift]

Conf/obvtown players without charisma can use it to push their lynch choices through. Not really in the spirit of the game.

[Raskolnikov]

I can imagine that being a complete trainwreck when mcNewbie 1v1s someone for a "scumslip".

[kuribo]

Sure but I can't imagine the town wouldn't hold people accountable for shitty 1v1s

I think I'm gonna give it a trial run when I do the Escape From Hell trilogy.

[Alchemist21]

The thing is I imagine it going as the newb getting lynched for damage control because people would rather lynch that than the stronger player. Then if the stronger player is scum they might get some free Town cred and if he's Town scum get a day to hide. Hopefully the Town overall would hold off the actual lynch to discuss things more, but it wouldn't be the same knowing that those 2 players are the only lynch options.

[Raskolnikov]

It'd be fine with a decent playerlist actually. People would warn others not to do it frivolously.

[kuribo]

How would a scum player get town cred 1v1 lynching a town player?

What kind of town would let a scum player skate to endgame after 1v1 bussing his own partner for town cred?

Towns that would assign town cred solely for either of those were going to lose regardless.

[kuribo]

It's not meant to be a core mechanic, more like a pressure valve


Instead of two players dragging through an endless sniping back and forth and a shitstorm which makes the game less fun for the others, it lets them settle things once and forever. Instead of arguing with someone endlessly, you can put your read where your mouth is and throw both of you to the mercy of the town.

Would it be easier for more charismatic players? Sure, but Mafia in general is. But the action doesn't exist in a vacuum, it exists as part of the game state where the rest of the town can say "no, you're the one whose shit we're sick of."

And that's why it exists as a 1v1: you tell the town, it's them or me. I'm so confident they're scum that I'm willing to put my life at risk. And if you've been annoying, or unconvincing, or disingenuous, town has no reason to lynch them over you. The mechanic just cuts out the middle man.

[SpyreX]

Its like the duel mechanic I ran once (which was a hoot) but less the core play. It'd be interesting.

[callforjudgement]

It strikes me that it might make policy lynches somewhat easier to push through. That might give interesting results on whether policy lynches help or hurt town. (It's hard to get data atm because it's so rare that the circumstances to allow a policy lynch exist.)

[TierShift]

Sure but I can't imagine the town wouldn't hold people accountable for shitty 1v1s

Let's say newbie is IC. IC 1v1s someone. Town is always gonna vote the other option, regardless of if they're annoyed by the IC. Repeat every day. Profit.

[pieguyn]

to address the OP: do scum have any ethical responsibility to do anything? no. however, in my eyes, it isn't really an issue of whether it's allowed or not, it's more an issue of game spirit and faith in other people. do I enjoy playing with people who do questionably-ethical-sort-of things as scum? no. would I be likely to play with people who play that way regularly after seeing them play that way as scum in a game? no. do I play that way as scum? no, because I find it a cheap way of winning and not interesting, unless I'm explicitly trying to make the point that that kind of play should not be allowed to go unchecked in games. do I find that this makes me less likely to win as scum? not particularly, so I don't see what the issue is.

this doesn't just apply to people being dicks for no apparent reason, either. the most obvious example of scum behavior that doesn't risk breaking any rules that I tend to avoid anyway just due to how stupid it is is the thread-flooding scum strategy, which thankfully is recognized enough to where a lot of people identifiably feel the same way I do about it.

[Accountant]

I know for a fact I've had a few games where I wished I could 1v1 someone

[SpyreX]

Every game? I think it's every game