PTs Not Released - Why is this a Thing?

[Frozen Angel]

they have one vote

if they both want to push that guy with their shared vote maybe that guy deserves it

[Accountant]

There are no site rules broken by having that convo on Skype.

[drealmerz7]

There are no site rules broken by having that convo on Skype.

and in a PT?

[Accountant]

No site rules broken.

[Accountant]

(assuming the hydra PT is private)

[Frozen Angel]

"I agree, I want to piss on his face so fucking much - I'd kill his children if I could!"

this if i on site - will cause a warning

and they will likly - won't publickly out that thread

You can't punish people for having a private communication nor you can expose their privacy because your paranoid they might threathen someone to kill

[Frozen Angel]

(assuming the hydra PT is private)

[Infinity 324]

Dreal, it's true you have to draw the line somewhere but I don't think it makes much sense to draw the line where insulting someone related to a game over Skype is not allowed

[Frozen Angel]

thats the reason why private topics shouldn't be immidiatly released when game ends and people should have the chance to ask mods for not outing them

[Accountant]

Or you can talk shit on Skype, leave the hydra PT empty and everyone's happy

[drealmerz7]

hmk ya I see - does the mod have access to the PT?

[Frozen Angel]

game mods make private topics of game (like scum pt) and will add others in them

for hydra pt - some will make them upon request (if they do they have access). some who moderate games themselve wil make their own hydra pt's - so game mod won't have access to it

and some people won't ever make a hydra pt cause they have other ways of communication.

[Accountant]

hmk ya I see - does the mod have access to the PT?

Doesnt matter

[Frozen Angel]

hydra partners "SHOULD" communicate about the ongoing game

Thats the reason people make hydras

[Accountant]

I don't think Hydra PTs should be released short of personal, real life threats, admission to criminal activities etc.

[BTD6_maker]

Personally, I feel that all Moderator-provided threads should be considered an important part of the game. This mainly applies to scum PTs, though it could also apply to hydra PTs.

Suppose you did not regard the scum PT as part of the game. Then the game would be no different if scum simply had no PT at all. However, this is clearly not the case. Scum would be much worse off if this happened. Thus we must consider scum PTs to be a part of the game.

If the Moderator gives scum a thread for them to use, the Moderator should be able to notify them that what they say will be public after the game. As for scum calling other players bad in the PT, that would depend on what was being said. If it was along the lines of "X is a bad player. We should keep X alive for an easy LyLo win" then that was clearly talking about strategy. After all, scum very often want to kill good players and leave bad players alive. This should be fine to release. If X starts drama based on what was said there, X is responsible, not the Mod or the scum that said that.

If, on the other hand, scum start hurling abuse at X behind their back, this is unacceptable. I will warn them to stop and if they do not I will take action against it (preferably in the method least disruptive to the game). This is a completely different issue.

Either way, though I can understand the points for keeping PTs private without permission, I myself will inform all PT users that everything said will be public after the game ends from now on, including Open 676.

[Cerberus v666]

Hydra PT's aren't any more game specific than scum PT's.

Do you really think that if I don't care about people censoring themselves in scum PT's that it would matter to me if they do so in their hydra PT's?

They're not game specific because we use one hydra PT for every conversation we've ever had is what I'm saying. Releasing that would mean releasing personal information between friends as well as modding information.

Ah. Yeah, that just means you should be using your own mod powers to make game specific hydra PTs. Or ask the mod to do so for you. I have a bunch of individual channels in our slack for each game we play togther, just like I have individual hydra PTs for each game.

Pedit: <3 BTD6. THAT'S HOW YOU CHANGE THINGS. Not by just bitching about them, and arguing here, but by actively moving to change the culture.

I wish I had the desire to run games, so I could run awesome games everyone would want to be a part of that happened to include things like PTs that will not be allowed to be kept sealed.

[drealmerz7]

yeah, it will never be a question for me either when I mod games

scum PTs will be made available upon completion of the game, no edits allowed

and hydras will never be allowed in games I mod

[BTD6_maker]

Personally, I will generally allow hydras, but will make it clear that they must use the game-specific PT I give them instead of any other hydra PT. This is a much better idea than allowing unmonitored private hydra PTs, where anything could be said and the Moderator does not have access.

[Frozen Angel]

@BTD No one ever said scum pt is not an important part of game.

giving 1 day to scum team to tell their concerns before releasing the topic is not equal to lock it up

I never locked any scum topics in my modding history.

The reason the one day or two is given is to say "I gave you a chance to express any concerns, I have no responsibility or whatsoever about anything that might happen" and I embrace that relaxation as a mod

and Why you should see what hydra partners will discuss? That's the exact meaning of violating privacy. What hydra partners discuss is literally none of your business as a mod.

Its not about allowing them to insult. Its about alloing them to talk. For all you as a mod should care - their one slot - and they should act like one in your game so you as a mod should treat them as a one slot as well.

[Frozen Angel]

also cerb I didn't know having opposite opinions and expressing reasoning is bitching.

if its about the hydra talk I had with drealm - I will bitch the fuck out of it

Privacy is important... I won't let anyone dishonor it on my watch.

[Accountant]

I will never allow hydrae in my games. I don't like playing with hydrae, and so I see no reason to subject my players to the same fate.

[Cerberus v666]

FA, I'm talking about my position and actions here. Since the status quo is to let the players decide, and I think it should he different, not doing anything besides complaining here is ineffectual. What is actually effective is running games with those expectations, and running them well, so that way the prevailing standard changes.

@drealmerz: I think your concern about hydrae is, to be quite frank, really dumb. As Accountant said, if the members of the hydra are going to break rules in some way that makea them talking about the game outside of your view unacceptable, then they will do it whether or not they're in a hydra, and whether or not they have a PT to talk in. If they're NOT going to break the rules, then the fact that they're discussing the game through a private medium that isn't the topic you provided is irrelevant.

[drealmerz7]

I think it is more about from a mod's perspective like BTD6 emphasized

you say as a mod "if you are a hydra you must use this PT if you are going to communicate about the game, any communication about the game outside of the gamethread or this PT is against the rules" - is not dumb, and that is all my position is

that position then further extends to: if you're going to break that rule, well then fuck you pretty much (: even if there's no ability to tell if ppl are breaking rules or not, doesn't mean to forgo the rule

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, that's fair then. You, as the mod, can certainly say you want all conversation to take place in that PT. That's very different than you saying that you'll never allow hydrae in your games.

It's just a matter of making your expectations clear.

For example, when we first hydraed, drixx and I made sure the moderator was okay with us talking via another chat system so we could do so in a dynamic back and forth fashion , and they were. We've since become lazy about asking new moderators if they're okay with that(but a lot of those new moderators are people who havd played sith us and know we chat on slack and transfer our conversations in the PT afterwards), but if a moderator didn't want us to talk at all outside of the PT, we'd either abide, or we just wouldn't play, depending on how painful we expected PT only conversation to be.