About the expectations of investigative results

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Post Post #25 (ISO) » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:13 am

Post by Antihero »

In post 24, SpyreX wrote:
In post 22, Antihero wrote:my answer to the OP is that, generally, roles should do what the role PM says it does. if cops have an expectation they're getting alignments (which is what a standard cop role PM provides), they should get alignments.
The role does what it says. It's just that another role affected it.

Just like what millions of roles do. Unless were on the path of doc being bad cause a scum pm says a kill.
which is why i said generally. if you break from that, the other role that effects it should be prevalent enough in site meta where it can be reasonably anticipated. there should also be a limit on the consequences for screwing up. a doc save by itself isn't going to fuck scum over. on its own, trusting an inno on the godfather is sufficient to screw town's chances of winning.
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Post Post #26 (ISO) » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:53 am

Post by kuribo »

I've said it before and I'll say it again

To call cop sanities or godfathers "bastard" is such a watering down of the term that it renders the word pointless

Even with cop sanity, though I do feel their role PM should state "you do not know your sanity," or "your sanity is not guaranteed." Which is standard cop language for the games I mod anyway.
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Post Post #27 (ISO) » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:53 am

Post by StrangerCoug »

There's a reason I was trying to avoid a debate on whether godfathers are good or bad :P I feel like my original question has been answered, in any event.
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Post Post #28 (ISO) » Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:09 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

To me, one of the main determiners of whether something is bastard is whether it can act in a way that the players can't reasonably predict.

As such, the extent to which something is bastard depends on the metagame and common modding practice. ("Cop of unknown sanity" is IMO a role in its own right, and not bastard if expressed like that. So long as it isn't a random cop, because that's a terrible role.)
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Post Post #29 (ISO) » Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:17 pm

Post by Antihero »

In post 26, kuribo wrote:To call cop sanities or godfathers "bastard" is such a watering down of the term that it renders the word pointless
didn't call it bastard. i just think it's a bad role.
In post 27, StrangerCoug wrote:There's a reason I was trying to avoid a debate on whether godfathers are good or bad :P I feel like my original question has been answered, in any event.
sry, didn't mean to go off topic. :(

we're talking about godfathers, but i think you could say the same for most target-side counters. things like tracker/ninja, roleblocker/strongman, and godfather/cop are just gross because people making the optimal, higher percentage plays and trusting clears generated by those town roles are randomly dicked over from time to time and there's nothing they can do to counter that.

and it speaks directly to your question of "what should investigatives expect?" i just think it's better game design to be more up front about what to expect instead of springing it on them come endgame and have them resent you.
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Post Post #30 (ISO) » Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:24 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

I tend to be less bothered by ninja or strongman, especially if they're x shot; rb or tracker actions depend on who is shooting anyway.
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Post Post #31 (ISO) » Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:36 pm

Post by Antihero »

In post 30, mhsmith0 wrote:rb or tracker actions depend on who is shooting anyway.
not if there's 1 scum left
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