Curbing abusive behavior in games

[Majiffy]

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/facebook ... hael-casey

Pretty good read. I think the solution offered up for League might be adaptable to the forum in some aspects, using post-game user reports.

[Flubbernugget]

Upon a quick skim the first skepticism is that mafiascum is to small and too slow for this to be effective, especially when seeing mentions of machine learning.

[chamber]

league games also take like 30-50 minutes, not months.

[mykonian]

I very much suspect that league thing is the system judging it's own working. The people don't change, the way the vent frustration might find another outlet, but it's there, the way the system measures it does change. The numbers given are unrealistic, but Riot has happily shown them to everybody. I've been called a faggot less since they implemented that system, but in terms of raging unpleasant people there hasn't been a meaningful change. A 40% decrease would've been felt, I believe.

On top of that, this is sort of Riot's MO. They would really love to be the forerunner of esports, and as such have a vested interest in selling success stories of their designs. Some of them have been more blatantly distorted than this (the most obvious one through a very dubious questionaire which rather guided the answer), but it makes one suspicious.

[Flubbernugget]

league games also take like 30-50 minutes, not months.

To be fair, I don't think players would have to be rated on a per game basis

[Flubbernugget]

I also think MS (for the most part) has a pretty good "fight club" community that knows where finding an outlet for abrasive behavior can be properly contained.

[Expedience]

I think this is very bad but it's probably just ideological differences between us.

[Accountant]

I think it's a good idea.

[Majiffy]

Upon a quick skim the first skepticism is that mafiascum is to small and too slow for this to be effective, especially when seeing mentions of machine learning.

Well I'm not thinking so much adding code - lol automated sign ups - but more a database for list mods and game mods

[Accountant]

A lot of the times people have different expectations of politeness.

Take this quote

You're a fucking scumlord and you need to eat rope right now. Your scumbuddy must be crying in the PT that he got matched up with a guy who got caught so easily.

I can see why someone would type this without thinking it's offensive or personal at all, and I can see why someone would think this is over the line. By putting these kinds of examples in a database and allowing users to rate them, it's easier to get a consensus on where this kind of language stands with regards to how they're perceived by players.

[Majiffy]

Well you're going to have outliers on both sides. That's how you create a happy medium that is dynamic to site and community meta.

[Accountant]

Yes I was agreeing with you

[Flubbernugget]

Upon a quick skim the first skepticism is that mafiascum is to small and too slow for this to be effective, especially when seeing mentions of machine learning.

Well I'm not thinking so much adding code - lol automated sign ups - but more a database for list mods and game mods

What kind of data do you have in mind? A count of this is a good post vs. this is a bad post? How many people someone pisses off on average?

[Majiffy]

Just what behavior is viewed by the community as a peaceful resolution of tensions vs negative escalation

[Flubbernugget]

I'm trying to think of a way that would fit in a database.

I'm as skeptical of this idea as I am fascinated by it.

[RadiantCowbells]

There's a critical difference between League of Legends and Mafia though.

Being toxic in LoL distracts you from the game and helps your team lose.
Being toxic in Mafia, or at least being high strung and abrasive, carries your team to a win.

[Accountant]

Being toxic in Mafia, or at least being high strung and abrasive, carries your team to a win.

I think trust and cooperation fostering are important in mafia, especially in LyLo.

[RadiantCowbells]

Being toxic in Mafia, or at least being high strung and abrasive, carries your team to a win.

I think trust and cooperation fostering are important in mafia, especially in LyLo.

I've found differently. As both alignments.

[BrainpanSonata]

Toxic players are more likely to be Policy Lynched (often in the same day that toxic behavior is displayed), which usually hurts Town more than scum.

[Infinity 324]

I don't think the above is true

Non-toxic players have a 0% chance to be policy lynched
Toxic players have a 0% chance to be policy lynched

I'm barely even exaggerating.

But anyway, I agree strongly that cooperation is in general the most effective way to succeed as town. As scum everyone has their own playstyle, and it's basically whatever works for you. For me I often find being agreeable tends to work pretty well, but being more "difficult" can be useful for some people/in some cases.

[callforjudgement]

I still think policy lynching D1 is helpful in 2:11 vanilla (and similar setups with heavy scum skew). You probably weren't going to hit scum anyway, and because scum are going to get the chance to take out the best townies early, you need to take out the worst townies early to compensate (and have the bonus chance of actually hitting scum).

That said, I also think 2:9 is more townsided than 2:11, because it gives the scum less control over which townies die.

I agree that policy lynches hardly ever happen, and I can see why. (That said, it has happened, although that was something of a special case, and is one of the incidents that lead me to conclude that moderators need to be very very careful with mechanics that give town an advantage for not going close to the deadline.) Anyone have an example from more recently than 2011?

[BrainpanSonata]

I don't think the above is true

Non-toxic players have a 0% chance to be policy lynched
Toxic players have a 0% chance to be policy lynched

I'm barely even exaggerating.

I'm speaking from personal experience here, but I recommend taking it with a grain of salt since most of my personal experience is from other sites.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's not about like abusing people as much as it's about being generally salty and uncooperative while seeming vs being positive that your reads are right as town/scum.

[Vi]

@CFJ: I don't think that was an issue with the mechanic so much as it being a combination of a lot of people online, some super-fresh anger, and a charismatic leader.

Now, there was a game where I literally threw in an ability called "policy lynch" that let a player choose someone who could be more advantageously eliminated (I forget how) and that turned out to be a bad idea simply for the ill will it generated.

[Flubbernugget]

I've never seen a scenario where toxicity was pro town. Not snark or heated debates, but down right toxicity. In a perfect world, toxicity would be a 100%scum tell