JEEP cheating?!

[Sketchwick]

My my. It seems as I've been busy with my girlfriend and playing a lot of Warcraft I've forgotten dear old mafiascum. Of course my good friend JEEP hadn't, and he got me to play a couple of games, one he was in and one he is modding. But it's true what he said about me in this thread, up until my avatar changed so I had to realize there WERE Scummies, let alone the fact I won one, I had barely read games I was in, let alone anything else on the site.

Now I'm being called out as a character witness for JEEP. Why? Well, because to most of you JEEP is a login name for mafiascum. When I see JEEP I think of my friend with two middle names.

Has anyone seen George Carlin's routine about people who lose things and immediately assume the are stolen? This is what accusing JEEP of cheating reminds me of.

SOMEONE STOLE MY USED BAND-AID COLLECTION!

Saying JEEP cheats is no less funny.

For most of my life I was agnostic, and I thought it a bit stupid when people claimed they KNEW things. But now I am a devote atheist and I just KNOW there is nothing more than this life. Just as assuredly as my brother and many other people KNOW there is a god.

I KNOW JEEP doesn't cheat. Yes, logically you can argue with me that it is possible. It's also possible the sun will not come up tomorrow morning. I think JEEP cheating is less likely, but they are both possible. So if I ever use the word "know" I will use it when talking about the sun coming up and my good friend not cheating.

As much as it would break him and turn him into something incredibly unhappy, I think he'd actually choose to never play another game of anything rather than cheat at those games.

For the record, like most people I chose the option in this poll that it was offensive it is even suggested he cheats. But I shouldn't be offended, and he should be flattered. If people with little knowledge used Occum's Razor it would probably lead them to believe that JEEP cheats. But these are people with no knowledge. People who haven't studied mafia. People who never saw Antrax play. Occum's Razor is a useful tool, but I'm afraid I would have to take it away from any child that couldn't be trusted with it, because they cut my good friend. While the wound is far from fatal, I know it hurts, and I apologize for not coming to bandage it sooner.

sketchwick

[bigbenwd]

Occum's razor

... a what now?

[shadyforce]

Occum's razor is "When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how unlikely, must be true."

I KNOW JEEP doesn't cheat.

Saying you are 99% sure he doesn't cheat will have more credibility than saying you are 100% sure he doesn't cheat. Regardless, I believe you, I never believed he cheated from the start, though I aways kept an open mind. However, hearing your comments makes me believe even more that he doesn't cheat, since accounts from people who know him (and scummers who are obviously skilled at detecting lies) are about as sure as we'll ever get.

[PolarBoy]

I thought Occum's Razor was to simplify theories. Like plotting two points on a graph as a straight line instead of a complex curve.

Using Occum's Razor the way Sketchwick suggested would go something like this:

JEEP seems to know who has what role. JEEP has access to who has what role. Therefore, JEEP uses his access to cheat.

That is the simplest version of the theory. It's an abuse of the razor, as it leaves out valuable data. Such as how JEEP does, in fact, put a lot of tiime and energy into this site, or that he does have a great deal of experience playing mafia in situations where cheating would not be untraceable. Put that in the light of gamer's honor, which is the crux of the question, and Occum's Razor starts cutting out some really stupid ideas, like maybe JEEP pays people off to atest to his character and experience, or he puts all that effort into this site so that he can win games and look good in front of strangers.

Of course all of this

might

be true(we have no evidence to the contrary). But then again I might really be an advanced being from an alternate dimension who is only accidentally on this site because my tertiary body became bored and I haven't noticed yet.

[shadyforce]

Hmm. Perhaps I'm mixing it up wiith something else?

[cuban smoker]

Yeah, Sherlock Holmes.

And I think it's Occam's Razor. But PolarBoy is right. In layman's terms, Occam's Razor says the simplest solution is probably correct.

[Dragon Phoenix]

If people

with little knowledge

used Occum's Razor it would probably lead them to believe that JEEP cheats.

Emphasis mine.

[PolarBoy]

Yeah I know. I was just propounding further.

I've also seen it as Ockham, Occum, and Occam. Actually I think Ockham belonged to a time when nobody cared how you spell.

Oh yeah, check this out.

[Dourgrim]

*** RANT ALERT ***

JEEP does

not

cheat... and, to be blunt, any of you who are seriously entertaining the idea that he does are absolutely daft. He is easily one of the best Mafia players I have ever had the pleasure of being in a game with (and one of the most deceptive, too, when he puts his mind to it), he is ludicrously intelligent, and he's

observant

, something that many of us lack (including myself from time to time). The idea that someone chose to ignore the possibility of actual

skill

playing a part in his success and instead start throwing around the word "cheating" is not only insulting and slanderous but a testament to the lack of sportsmanship so prevalent in today's whiny society.

Now factor in how much time he puts into this board so that endusers like us can sit around and have fun (

for free

, mind you), and you will quickly realize that he has little or no motivation to cheat. As mentioned above, many of us (and I consider myself one) would rather lose a game honestly than win dishonestly, and JEEP is most certainly one of those people.

So, to all of you who still think he cheats... get over it. Move on. Find someone else to slander. Don't spew inane accusations at one of the people who makes this place work, makes it fun, and makes it worthwhile... in short, go play in traffic.

*** rant over ***

Frankly, I'm disturbed that this topic was even created... where did all this nonsense begin, anyway?

And no, I don't care who I might've pissed off with that rant...

[MeMe]

Alright everyone -- just so that all suspicion can be put to rest about who the evil monster is who brought up this subject in the first place...it was me. Sorry that I didn't say anything earlier; at first it was because it would have damaged a currently running game; and then it was because I'd rather hoped this thread had died and everyone was pretty much agreed that he's worthy of...um...worship?

Get it straight, though, this wasn't a "sour grapes" situation where he caught me as mafia and I thought "no way! I'm too awesome to be caught!" It had to do with his uncovering two out of three mafia on day one in my American Idol game (without possessing an investigative role)...then, Night 2, I received a PM from him that said something like "and obviously, Player X is the final scum." From my mod perspective, it was such an incredible feat of deduction that I had to know how he did it. When he explained himself, it made me quite sure that he had come by his solution honestly and my answering PM is excerpted in the first post of this thread.

Let the witch hunt end. Understand that I respect jeep & appreciate his work on the site. I was talking to him as a friend -- not as an accuser. He has listened to my concerns and is not angry with me for voicing them. Certainly the rest of you, now knowing the source and that it was neither a juvenile nor angry conversation, can also lay aside the animosity.

[jeep]

He has listened to my concerns and is not angry with me for voicing them. Certainly the rest of you, now knowing the source and that it was neither a juvenile nor angry conversation, can also lay aside the animosity.

Most definitely. I am in no way upset with MeMe and TRIED to keep people from slamming her without the facts. In fact some of the early responses in this thread pissed me off. As I've stated before, I respect MeMe a lot so when she voiced her concern I took it seriously. I DID receive a couple very rude accusations after the fact that DID upset me. I overreacted by announcing that I was withdrawing until I could clear my name. Had I not done that, this would never have gotten blown out of proportion like that. BigBen, being who he is, of course, had to create the poll. I SHOULD have deleted/locked it. But, I thought this was dead. Well, it is now.

-JEEP