How to respond to presure when you're scum read

[ThinkBig]

One of the things that I have noticed that I have trouble with is when I'm scum read and/or have a wagon on me, I tend to start lurking back and falling behind. I don't really know how to respond to the pressure and how to "town up" when you're widely scum read.

What advice should I take to improve in that area? That's probably the weakest area in my games.

[mykonian]

Its a really stupid answer, but don't get scumread. Defense, something that people talk about, does not exist. The more you try to not get lynched, the scummier you look, the more you ignore it, the more people will think you are avoiding the issues laid against you. There's no right answer, if you get run up, or suspected, at some point it's your time. It's how mobs and suspicion work, so do get started well. We can pretend we pick our lynches intelligently and adjust for information we gain through the days, but it takes a lot of effort to have people go away from the read they had about someone day 1, even if they don't believe they are tunneling.

So yes, when momentum is against you and you are the next one to go, everything you do will get complained about, if you post it'll get talked about how it's scummy this time, and that might be disheartening enough to lurk out. You won't be the only one. You can take some solace in that they are actually just scumreading you in stead of your posts, but then again, putting effort into those posts isn't worth it either: tomorrow, despite that you have become confirmed town, nobody really cares about what's in them anyway.

To a certain extent, if you focus on that, you can extend the time you live, while being suspected. It doesn't solve your problem, just shifts it to a later day, and in between they still won't listen.

So as to advice, it comes back to the first sentence. Don't get suspected. It's a weak area for everybody.

[Vi]

Convince them to go after someone else instead. As long as you're not the slowest person running away from the bear your chances aren't that bad. Your chances probably aren't that bad anyway, so don't freak out (unless that would make you harder to lynch).

[Firebringer]

i find ignoring that people scum read you and just continuing to hunt for scum works the best, because when you are on the defense people naturally think your super defensive attitude is an admission to guilt.

That doesn't mean ignoring people questions at you or w/e but instead trying taking your focus far away from yourself.

[Randomnamechange]

literally refuse to mention the pushes on you ever. even if you're at l-1 and someone has intent to hammer you. concern shows weakness

[McMenno]

continue to "hunt" for scum... and don't forget to nightkill the people suspecting tou, people will write it off as wifom

[mastina]

This advice may sound like it's geared towards town, but really, this works regardless of alignment.

While the idea of refusing to defend yourself is all tempting and whatnot, realistically, when people see you refusing to address their attacks, at best they'll feel frustrated at you ignoring them. At worst, they'll assume that because you're not answering them, you can't, that you're deliberately avoiding the subject hoping it'll go away because it's incriminating.

Of course...if you put any effort into defending yourself, you can kiss your ass goodbye because you're getting lynched, guaranteed.

If you can't defend yourself, yet refusing to defend yourself gets you lynched, what can you do?

Simple: you address the concerns people have, but you redirect their attention elsewhere. You push their focus onto other players. You turn their reason for suspecting you around and try to focus it elsewhere. You don't want to ignore their suspicion. You don't want to defend from it. You want to make their suspicion no longer be something they want to direct your way. Get their attention where YOU want it. With you in the spotlight, it's the perfect time to highlight your scumreads, why you have them, and why the players scumreading you should listen to you and lynch your scumreads rather than you. (Yes, as scum, you should have scumreads.)

A task which is far easier, for instance, if you can point out that most/all of their reasons for suspecting you ALSO apply to your scumread. It won't work all the time; you'll still get lynched. The best way to avoid a scumread is to never be scumread. But this is the best general advice to take. Specific situations may differ (where some defense may be warranted), but in general, neither defending yourself nor refusing to defend yourself is the best approach to take. Work with the players accusing you, to try and reach a gamestate where they will push who you want pushed.

...Which you should have, by the way. If you don't have anyone who you want to see pushed, you pretty much deserve the lynch on you.

[mhsmith0]

One of the things that I have noticed that I have trouble with is when I'm scum read and/or have a wagon on me, I tend to start lurking back and falling behind. I don't really know how to respond to the pressure and how to "town up" when you're widely scum read.

What advice should I take to improve in that area? That's probably the weakest area in my games.

When you're town, you can just scumhunt on your wagon. Generally if your wagon goes up pretty high, there's at least one scum on it. If there isn't that usually means you already screwed up really badly and even then it's helpful to town if you're putting effort to read the people pushing you and who you think is being honest about it and who is being BS-y or opportunistic.

[KuroiXHF]

If you're scum, all you need to do is the following.

Code: Select all

*whistles casually.*

[Creature]

Flail, get as desperate as possible to find scum, throw everything that could stick in the wall. If you're town, someone will eventually notice you're town. Otherwise you can say they suck for not reconsidering you.

If you're scum, idk. Maybe try to do the above and hope someone writes you off as town for your flail?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Flail, get as desperate as possible to find scum, throw everything that could stick in the wall. If you're town, someone will eventually notice you're town. Otherwise you can say they suck for not reconsidering you.

If you're scum, idk. Maybe try to do the above and hope someone writes you off as town for your flail?

People view flailing as town?

[Creature]

No, but if you flail, then it's easier to sort you as your posts are less concentrated thus less likely worked on.

[Aeronaut]

The way to respond to pressure is by pressuring someone else, town or scum. The only way you can get those people off of you is by giving them a better option.

[Frozen Angel]

Defense, something that people talk about, does not exist.

This is wrong though. You should always be transparent and truthful about stuff and answer the cases on you. "The more you answer the scummier you look" is stupid.

answer with confidence , honesty and decency. If you remove every concern as soon as they rise - you won't ever get in trouble. Being active and present to answer will save you from getting lynched - regardless of your alignment

but putting that aside You shouldn't worry to much about being scum read (and thats not agsint my above suggestion you can do both). Just stay calm. whatever you do there will be some others who will interpret that as something scummy (sooner or later). You just need to be consistent and conscious about the game atmosphere and to not let it get out of your control.

and Thats me - who only got lynched twice in past year (about 50 games?) on MS (once as scum day 1 - when RC used a tricky tell) and once as town in lylo when I was exhusted from my teaching class and instead of defending myself I started criticizing the town!

[Fishythefish]

There are two fundamental reasons to think somebody is scummy:
1) Scum would do that.
2) Town wouldn't do that.
Very rarely engage on 1). For one thing, you have no special insight on it - you (supposedly) aren't scum. For another, talking about scum!you, even in theory, never sounds good.

Instead, focus on 2). Explain why you did what you did as town. Ask people if they think it's plausible. It's fine to say "yeah, I get why that looks bad. I might have done it as scum. Here's why I did it as town. Isn't that also just as good an explanation?".

[Randomnamechange]

ok new plan just insult everyone who vote you so they get upset and unvote

[Frozen Angel]

ok new plan just insult everyone who vote you so they get upset and unvote

I tried that

It will work

But there will be a time when you will be out of "I'm sorry" and you will be ashamed to even sign for new games

[RadiantCowbells]

You're all absolute fucking dogshit for voting me and your mothers would be ashamed of you.

[Frozen Angel]

[RadiantCowbells]

But actually you either need to change people's minds or change people's hearts.
Either influence people emotionally to the extent that they no longer wish to vote you or change their read so they no longer think that you're a good vote.
Second is easier but the first makes the game more pleasant for all parties involved.

[mhsmith0]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p7925439

Holy fuck the emotional manipulation is real.
MH, if you're actually town you're playing so bad that it's not even funny.

[Frozen Angel]

Second is easier but the first makes the game more pleasant for all parties involved.

TRUE fact lol

[ThinkBig]

ok new plan just insult everyone who vote you so they get upset and unvote

I was in a game once when a person was scum reading and throwing shades at every player who dared to question him and SR him. I actually started to SR him even harder because of that response.

[Randomnamechange]

ok new plan just insult everyone who vote you so they get upset and unvote

I was in a game once when a person was scum reading and throwing shades at every player who dared to question him and SR him. I actually started to SR him even harder because of that response.

i was joking. that is what pretty much always happens if someone does that.

[Ranmaru]

First, I'd look at the votes, and close the browser. I'd try to take a small break so that I can calm down my nervers. Then I come back to the computer to respond. I would explain myself and my motives. I know I'm town so I know everything I will say will be understood to be coming from a town mindset. Don't ever give up your defense, since if scum is pushing it, the more you defend the more ammo you give others to use against that person who mislynched you (if they get to that point) the next day.

Then I'd continue to scumhunt. Sometimes you may get pressured for things that you don't know yet to do. For example, one game I was accused because I have asked a lot of questions but never followed up on them. I now follow up on them, thanks to that experience. Just remember that you are town and you have nothing to fear. Be open, and if you lied then admit the lie and state why you lied.

---

Myko's advice is to not be scumread, or not make any mistakes at all. Yet that's not always going to be the case. Once you are in that position that advice won't help. It's akin to Isai's 'Don't get hit' advice for Smash Bros but, you won't know how to recover from being hit with that advice. It would be optimal to not make any mistakes at all, but we won't know everything to be able to avoid mistakes without having experienced them.

1. Look away and take a break.
2. Relax and calm your nerves.
3. Return refreshed.
4. Respond rationally.
5. Be honest, explain yourself and your motives and thought process.
6. Afterwards, scumhunt. Do not simply defend yourself, you still have to prove to town you care to contribute.
7. Remain active.
7. Above all, remember you are town and that you have nothing to fear and nothing to hide.