Vetting

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Zulfy
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Post Post #0  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:51 pm

I think that vetting incoming players for tendencies to flame, flake, be overall useless, unpleasant, or inappropriate isn't done enough and it should be.

Was thinking how I would go about doing that tho and decided that looking at people's wikis would probably be the most straight-forward way, but probably more time consuming.

Was thinking that maybe there should be some sort of pooled rating system but I honestly have no idea how this site would handle that.

Was wondering all of your opinions on the matter
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mastina
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Post Post #1  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:39 pm

*insert "Build a Wall" meme here*

Nero Cain
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Post Post #2  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:50 pm

I'd be ok with building a wall and letting the Canadian scummers pay for it.
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Zulfy
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Post Post #3  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:10 pm

I knew these posts would happen but I am hoping we can all get through it.
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TheRealGin-N-Tonic
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Post Post #4  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:10 pm

I'm hoping that we can get past the idea that just because we subjectively dislike a player, that we ban them. We have moderators, a report button, an already established system in place to deal with these issues.

There is no real need to try and create some sort of council to banish players before they even learn how to be a better player.


If you see a problem with the players, teach to let them grow, don't beat them with a whip and cast them outside the city gates.
“To be is to do”—Socrates. “To do is to be”—Jean-Paul Sartre. “Do be do be do”—Frank Sinatra.
"Gin, you are so charismatic it's scary." -nancy

Zulfy
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Post Post #5  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:00 pm

Some people don't want to learn and would rather whip me tho

I'm not saying disallow people from playing mafia I'm just saying make it easier for me to mod a game with the sort of players I want in my game instead of the sort of players I don't.
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Psyche
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Post Post #6  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:05 pm

No one's talking about subjective dislike of a player and I don't really gt why realgin brought it up.
"Listen well - to be human is to be an eternal wanderer. It's up to you to discover the new vistas of life. No one else will clear the way!"

Psyche
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Post Post #7  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:18 pm

So, it wouldn't be too hard to automatically track flaking. Generally unpleasant people, though? I can't really think of a non-toxic way to handle that.
"Listen well - to be human is to be an eternal wanderer. It's up to you to discover the new vistas of life. No one else will clear the way!"

TheRealGin-N-Tonic
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Post Post #8  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:19 pm

In post 7, Psyche wrote:So, it wouldn't be too hard to automatically track flaking. Generally unpleasant people, though? I can't really think of a non-toxic way to handle that.

unpleasant is what I mean by the subjective part
“To be is to do”—Socrates. “To do is to be”—Jean-Paul Sartre. “Do be do be do”—Frank Sinatra.
"Gin, you are so charismatic it's scary." -nancy

Zulfy
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Post Post #9  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:23 pm

We'll just scrap that then whatever
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TheRealGin-N-Tonic
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Post Post #10  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:30 pm

Sorry for the, what I can conceive as blunt distaste in it, this was tried on a forums I used to call my homesite and it didn't work out well because it turned into "I do or do not like you, so you can and can't play"
“To be is to do”—Socrates. “To do is to be”—Jean-Paul Sartre. “Do be do be do”—Frank Sinatra.
"Gin, you are so charismatic it's scary." -nancy

Psyche
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Post Post #11  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:35 pm

actually, i used to have negative attitudes about a rating system, but honestly it shouldn't be controversial at all to only want to play games with people who are Enjoyable to Play With, or to pressure people who aren't Enjoyable to Play With to change their style

still any concrete system i've thought of runs the risk of making the site more rather than less toxic very challenging stuff
"Listen well - to be human is to be an eternal wanderer. It's up to you to discover the new vistas of life. No one else will clear the way!"

Psyche
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Post Post #12  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:47 pm

i've thought of two fun automatic ways to measure player toxicity, though they each have their flaws that i'm just gonna gloss over for now

My first idea is that Microsoft and IBM have these sentiment analysis tools that can automatically detect the sentiment of a writer about the stuff he's writing about. In theory, for a given person, you can go through all (or some of) the games they've posted in and take the average sentiment about said person across all players in all those games to guess how much people enjoy playing with them.

Similarly, you can measure the average emotion of people in those games and use that with maybe some statistics about the other players to take a different sort of guess about how much people enjoy playing with them.
"Listen well - to be human is to be an eternal wanderer. It's up to you to discover the new vistas of life. No one else will clear the way!"

Zulfy
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Post Post #13  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:49 pm

I remember in your personality thing I was diagnosed a depressed and vindictive poop. I put more faith on the human mind.
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TheRealGin-N-Tonic
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Post Post #14  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:52 pm

but...sometimes I yell at people and a general aggressive style language as scum to sway people off of thinking why I'm scum is actually scum and town read me.

I mean I think tracking words in the context in what they are used could be something.

Like, I never would ever call someone a bitch on this site. I don't know why but I feel like 'bitch' can only be used as insulting in context.

I feel like I get where you're coming from and where you can see it but I also feel like there are drawbacks into what would happen if implemented.



Actually, maybe the system is used and only gives a warning to a mod and they review it behind the scenes and take actions when they deem fit?
“To be is to do”—Socrates. “To do is to be”—Jean-Paul Sartre. “Do be do be do”—Frank Sinatra.
"Gin, you are so charismatic it's scary." -nancy

Psyche
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Post Post #15  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:53 pm

Anyway, the easiest way to track replacements is to monitor the replacement thread(s). Next most easy is to monitor game archives. A more creative trick might be to send out surveys to game mods at the end of their games, but discussion in past threads has suggested that they wouldn't appreciate the additional workload on top of running their games. And finally, one can look at all the different game threads. Some devoted scummer could always do the archiving himself, I spose! It wouldn't be a lot of work, but it would hard to do reliably for free, I can promise you.
"Listen well - to be human is to be an eternal wanderer. It's up to you to discover the new vistas of life. No one else will clear the way!"

Psyche
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Post Post #16  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:53 pm

In fact, the replacements thread is thankfully one of the most systematically managed threads on the site, so it wouldn't be too hard to make a script that flags high-rate replaceouts there.

MMMM the thread IS a little messy though.
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zoraster
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Post Post #17  (ISO)  » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:57 am

From a site perspective, how to respond to people who flake or otherwise should be "vetted" is tough. Because unless your argument is that people who replace out of games or annoy you or whatever should be banned from mafia games, either officially or de facto by universally adopted mod blacklist, all you really end up doing is moving players around. If you don't and your standard is effective, at best you've managed to make certain games better while arguably making other games crappier.


In post 7, Psyche wrote:So, it wouldn't be too hard to automatically track flaking. Generally unpleasant people, though? I can't really think of a non-toxic way to handle that.


Agar did a long list at one point. We can occasionally do that, but the problem as I see it is any response would need to come from an updating list.
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