Abandoned Votes

[-Grey-]

Once a player replaces out, would it not be a good practice to automatically unvote that player in the next vote count, as a mod?

By automatically unvoting that slot, it keeps vote accountability in the hands of the active players and reduces opportunities for lynch shenanigans.

Yes, I know most players unvote when they replace in as a matter of course, but what about that vacuum where nobody is in the vacated slot? What if the replacement forgets to unvote and the wagon is hammered while they're reading the game to catch up?

By automatically unvoting players that replace out, it retains full accountability of all votes by only allowing active players to own votes.

[Cheery Dog]

It's still a player slot in the game, it had a belief that that person was scum there might not currently be anybody in it, but that vote is still there and should still be counted.

[-Grey-]

If that player wanted to have their say in the game, they should have stayed in it.

[LlamaFluff]

It seems like some BaM hybrid rule that is more geared at punishing players who flake instead of moving the game along smoothly and fairly for the remaining player base. You first are going to have to under any circumstance extend deadlines for replacements to prevent lylo auto-losses. Also you start setting yourself up on slippery slope arguments where because you aren't counting the slot as technically voting, should the lynch threshold change as the number of eligible votes is suddenly different?

[-Grey-]

Also you start setting yourself up on slippery slope arguments where because you aren't counting the slot as technically voting, should the lynch threshold change as the number of eligible votes is suddenly different?

I don't see why it should, as the moderator is seeking to fill the slot.

If there was no desire to fill the slot, modkill it and act accordingly.

[Cheery Dog]

If that player wanted to have their say in the game, they should have stayed in it.

The player themselves doesn't matter, just the slot.

[-Grey-]

If that player wanted to have their say in the game, they should have stayed in it.

The player themselves doesn't matter, just the slot.

Precisely.

Slots don't have a voice. Players do.

[Cheery Dog]

Incorrect.

While the player is the Slot's voice, just because it loses a voice temporarily, until the new one comes in, it should still have the remains of that voice.
Otherwise you might as well just delete the posts of everyone that replaces out.
---
Given that, there's not actually a problem if you're modding a game and make it clear this happens in your ruleset.

[-Grey-]

I don't even see how you traverse the chasm that is the difference between removing a vote from the vote count and deleting every post a player makes.

That's an asinine strawman.

[Toomai]

My opinion is that slots are not replaced until they're replaced. Until the new player shows up, the old player is still in. There is no mod-recognized period of "this slot is empty" (aside from not sending them prods). Given that, I don't see a problem with resetting a slot's vote when it's replaced - but not until the new player comes in.

[Randomnamechange]

It allows you to immediately pressure the slot when they replace in rather than having to rebuild a wagon. also more useful for VCA as you don't have to figure out how the new wagon relates to the dissolved one.

[-Grey-]

It allows you to immediately pressure the slot when they replace in rather than having to rebuild a wagon. also more useful for VCA as you don't have to figure out how the new wagon relates to the dissolved one.

I'm not talking about votes ON abandoned slots.

I'm talking about the vote made BY the abandoned slot.

[Randomnamechange]

It allows you to immediately pressure the slot when they replace in rather than having to rebuild a wagon. also more useful for VCA as you don't have to figure out how the new wagon relates to the dissolved one.

I'm not talking about votes ON abandoned slots.

I'm talking about the vote made BY the abandoned slot.

oh my bad. then i think that once a replacement is found remove it, as some people replace back into their own slot after they calm down.

[RedCoyote]

My opinion is that slots are not replaced until they're replaced. Until the new player shows up, the old player is still in. There is no mod-recognized period of "this slot is empty" (aside from not sending them prods). Given that, I don't see a problem with resetting a slot's vote when it's replaced - but not until the new player comes in.

This. As a general rule, the mod, as well as the playerlist, would prefer the player to remain in the slot. Far be it from me to tell me how to run your game, Grey, as I think your rule would be an interesting deviation from the norm, but I think most mods take Toomai's point here. Until you find that replacement, the player that currently has the slot is welcome to return to it (in the case of flaking) and that's the preferable outcome.

If the player flat out says they're leaving the game and not returning, then I think there's a better argument to be made for erasing the vote. There are pros/cons for both policies though.

[RedCoyote]

It's also worth noting that an 'erasing votes' rule has a degree, albeit slight, of the mod influencing the game. That's never a good thing. If a vote was cast by a player, regardless if the slot is abandoned or not, that player did so intentionally. It can be argued it's not within the mod's authority to undo it because of someone disappearing or leaving. Then again, if the rule is made clear to everyone at the start, does that openness inherently nullify any concerns over influence?

[RedCoyote]

I could also picture a theoretical situation where player X would deliberately troll a sensitive player Y to provoke them to leave the game and thus erase their vote.

Hmmm... it's an interesting topic to think on.

[Kmd4390]

Sounds fine in theory but might be more trouble than it's worth. First of all, you'd need to clarify before the game that you are doing this and you'd have to clearly define it. For example, a player flakes. At what point does the vote come off? If they return before a replacement is found, what happens to the vote? What about LYLO situations, keeping in mind that it only makes sense to change for LYLO in an open setup if at all?

[Psyche]

it can sometimes take a really long time to replace a player who's flaked from their slot
i feel like it causes more trouble to the game state for their last vote to sit on someone that entire period with no reaction to what's going on in the game, than for the vote to be removed

[Cheery Dog]

The only case it matters if someone is able to quickhammer because the vote is there.
The quickhammer is the problem there.