Matrix6 BP fix
- mhsmith0
-
mhsmith0 Balancing Act
- mhsmith0
- Balancing Act
- Balancing Act
- Posts: 10830
- Joined: March 7, 2016
- Location: Phoenix, AZ
Matrix6 BP fix
The easiest and simplest way to fix the BP issue that's popped up in matrix6 games is to just replace it with a different role. What are people's thoughts on replacing it with a backup (becomes tracker or jailkeeper if or when the first dies)?
That gets rid of the issue of incentivizing early bp claims (also makes it a risky scum fake claim since it's a role that can take actions and that can forcibly clear people), which I think is really the only current issue w the newbie setup.Showhttp://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?- gigabyteTroubadour
-
gigabyteTroubadour Jack of All Trades
- gigabyteTroubadour
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7577
- Joined: May 30, 2016
- Location: New Jersey, the Armpit of the United States
Yeah I've been in favor of that change for a while.
The only issue I see is newbies being confused about changing roles but I think it's kind of intuitive that a backup backs-up...?i no longer strictly go by they/them and honestly prefer she/her but they/them's fine if you're used to it i guess
☭ I'm coming for that toothbrush ☭- mhsmith0
-
mhsmith0 Balancing Act
- mhsmith0
- Balancing Act
- Balancing Act
- Posts: 10830
- Joined: March 7, 2016
- Location: Phoenix, AZ
Newbie games should have sample role pms near the start, so it's easy enough to see what it means, plus presumably at least some ic/se players would be clued in enough to further explain.Showhttp://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?- Lycanfire
-
Lycanfire Mafia Scum
- Lycanfire
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2380
- Joined: June 4, 2016
- mhsmith0
-
mhsmith0 Balancing Act
- mhsmith0
- Balancing Act
- Balancing Act
- Posts: 10830
- Joined: March 7, 2016
- Location: Phoenix, AZ
It's detrimental to development and interest, as claimed bps can get bored and lose interest. Fwiw I also think that it's a behavioral detriment to scumhunting, as people waste time with setup discussion and claim trains instead of working to determine alignment, and that this materially hurts town win rates over the long run.
Bottom line: it's negative for player development, and the mechanical benefit is much lower than people think.
Ps why is backup jk "really bad"? And how is backup tracker confusing to newbies?Showhttp://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?- Lycanfire
-
Lycanfire Mafia Scum
- Lycanfire
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2380
- Joined: June 4, 2016
- mhsmith0
-
mhsmith0 Balancing Act
- mhsmith0
- Balancing Act
- Balancing Act
- Posts: 10830
- Joined: March 7, 2016
- Location: Phoenix, AZ
Backup is backup. So he'd inherit either tracker or jk ability depending on setup.
Late game pr is only useful if Roleblocker is dead; if Roleblocker lives town still up shit creek.Showhttp://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?- RadiantCowbells
-
RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth Criminal
- RadiantCowbells
He/him- Smooth Criminal
- Smooth Criminal
- Posts: 70855
- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/him
- Contact:
- mhsmith0
-
mhsmith0 Balancing Act
- mhsmith0
- Balancing Act
- Balancing Act
- Posts: 10830
- Joined: March 7, 2016
- Location: Phoenix, AZ
If there is a better idea, then even better. What are you thinking of?Showhttp://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?- UpTooLate
-
UpTooLate Mafia Scum
- UpTooLate
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2838
- Joined: December 23, 2015
- Location: Joisey
- Contact:
Egoing this thread for now, bed time!- Nachomamma8
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Nachomamma8
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
I don't think newbies are too likely to be confused about the change.
I do agree that the BP strategy that popped up is probably harmful to newbie games and this is a good fix for it; I have a couple concerns (universal backup seems significantly stronger than BP, seems like it swings too hard against the scumteam when one scum goes down), but I definitely think it's something we should try out."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.- Toomai
-
Toomai Goon
- Toomai
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 734
- Joined: January 12, 2013
- Location: Ontario
- Contact:
Could I put my vote into "if you change the setup, change its name"? We can't have someone say "Matrix6" and have anyone thinking "which one?" The daytalk experiment provided enough confusion.This should be required reading for...everyone for anything, really.- Psyche
-
Psyche he/theySurvivor
- Psyche
he/they- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10058
- Joined: April 28, 2011
- Pronoun: he/they
could use version numbers- Titus
-
Titus She/her/hersMoon Walker
- Titus
She/her/hers- Moon Walker
- Moon Walker
- Posts: 80249
- Joined: May 3, 2013
- Pronoun: She/her/hers
- Contact:
Rather than making the universal backup a thing in newbies, just give the scum a strongman instead of a roleblocker.ShowThe scum had the misfortune of Titus being absurdly accurate on day one.Really quite impressed by that.~Drixx
You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin
GTKTitus Part 2
Titus Academy
VLA Friday nights until Sunday morning.
All hail the Scum Empress!- mhsmith0
-
mhsmith0 Balancing Act
- mhsmith0
- Balancing Act
- Balancing Act
- Posts: 10830
- Joined: March 7, 2016
- Location: Phoenix, AZ
That does nothing to solve the problem of bp being incentivized to claim d1 since it's still potentially useful in a tracker/bp setup. It also makes cop/doc row even more townsided.Showhttp://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?- Nachomamma8
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Nachomamma8
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
- Nachomamma8
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Nachomamma8
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
In particular, if JK properly identifies the nightkill and scum have absolutely no idea who they are, don't think the kill should go through."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.- RadiantCowbells
-
RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth Criminal
- RadiantCowbells
He/him- Smooth Criminal
- Smooth Criminal
- Posts: 70855
- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/him
- Contact:
- FireScreamer
-
FireScreamer Mafia Scum
- FireScreamer
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2414
- Joined: February 5, 2017
- Location: Prestwick, United Kingdom
- Toomai
-
Toomai Goon
- Toomai
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 734
- Joined: January 12, 2013
- Location: Ontario
- Contact:
One potential wrinkle with a BP->Backup switch is that it lowers uncertainty of Tracker results. In Matrix6, if a Tracker sees a visit but there was no kill, it could mean:- He tracked scum to the Doctor's target. (setup C)
- He tracked the Doctor to the scum's target. (setup C)
- He tracked scum to the BP. (setup 3)
This should be required reading for...everyone for anything, really.- Accountant
-
Accountant Jack of All Trades
- Accountant
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 6419
- Joined: May 16, 2015
- Location: Wonderland
I would like to point out that people are not very stupid. Universal Backup is a simple role that can be easily grasped by even newbies.There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.- Alisae
-
Alisae lolbalance
- Alisae
- Titus
-
Titus She/her/hersMoon Walker
- Titus
She/her/hers- Moon Walker
- Moon Walker
- Posts: 80249
- Joined: May 3, 2013
- Pronoun: She/her/hers
- Contact:
No. Bp claims. Scum shoot bp, just like any other pr.In post 14, mhsmith0 wrote:That does nothing to solve the problem of bp being incentivized to claim d1 since it's still potentially useful in a tracker/bp setup. It also makes cop/doc row even more townsided.ShowThe scum had the misfortune of Titus being absurdly accurate on day one.Really quite impressed by that.~Drixx
You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin
GTKTitus Part 2
Titus Academy
VLA Friday nights until Sunday morning.
All hail the Scum Empress!- Titus
-
Titus She/her/hersMoon Walker
- Titus
She/her/hers- Moon Walker
- Moon Walker
- Posts: 80249
- Joined: May 3, 2013
- Pronoun: She/her/hers
- Contact:
Strongman should be one shot, factional.In post 16, Nachomamma8 wrote:In particular, if JK properly identifies the nightkill and scum have absolutely no idea who they are, don't think the kill should go through.ShowThe scum had the misfortune of Titus being absurdly accurate on day one.Really quite impressed by that.~Drixx
You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin
GTKTitus Part 2
Titus Academy
VLA Friday nights until Sunday morning.
All hail the Scum Empress!- mhsmith0
-
mhsmith0 Balancing Act
- mhsmith0
- Balancing Act
- Balancing Act
- Posts: 10830
- Joined: March 7, 2016
- Location: Phoenix, AZ
True, but it's IMO less of an unbalancing issue than BP auto claiming and then tracker knows that he's dealing with a doc if there's no BP claim. And just generally FTT is relatively weak barring an early scum death, and I think it's probably healthy to have a structure where early scum deaths are basically always really bad for scum team.In post 19, Toomai wrote:One potential wrinkle with a BP->Backup switch is that it lowers uncertainty of Tracker results. In Matrix6, if a Tracker sees a visit but there was no kill, it could mean:- He tracked scum to the Doctor's target. (setup C)
- He tracked the Doctor to the scum's target. (setup C)
- He tracked scum to the BP. (setup 3)
Showhttp://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think? - mhsmith0
Copyright © MafiaScum. All rights reserved.
- Titus
- Titus
- Accountant
- Toomai
- FireScreamer
- RadiantCowbells
- Nachomamma8
- Nachomamma8
- mhsmith0
- Titus
- Psyche
- Toomai
- Nachomamma8
- UpTooLate
- mhsmith0
- RadiantCowbells
- mhsmith0
- Lycanfire
- mhsmith0
- Lycanfire
- mhsmith0
- gigabyteTroubadour
- mhsmith0