Never-ending Mafia

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Never-ending Mafia

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:21 am

Post by Fart »

As we all know Fart is a half-imbecile so this is beyond me... but what would it look like to design a never-ending forum mafia game? I'm thinking the game has
some
achievable win-cons, but the game never ends, as there is a regular inflow of new players.

questions and thoughts
:
Could it be designed to allow players to re/in? (maybe once all players who were in the game with you previously are also eliminated)
Would it be fun?
Could it be done?
I think since town and mafia have un-achievable win-cons they will play for bragging rights and the sweet stats the mod would have to compile in post 0.
A team of moderators would be needed to keep it going and they would be completely in control of adapting the roles of the ongoing /ins to the gamestate to make it work.



Someone make this and count this as my pre/in.
Or feel free to shit on the idea ITT.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:49 am

Post by Radical Rat »

It's an interesting concept, but I don't really see anyone staying involved long-term.

Without Town or Mafia win conditions being achievable, there's just no motivation.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:08 am

Post by Flubbernugget »

Can keep score of lynches vs mislynches

Town lynch gives scum 1 pt

Scum lynch gives town 3 pts
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:28 am

Post by Vaxkiller »

Neat, but the biggest problem I see is when you lynch mafia, you know one of the next few players coming in are mafia.
Also if you lynch most of the mafia on the original team, the rest of the unlynched original players are conf town.
Vaxkiller is not anti-vaccine, he is a killer of Vax machines.

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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:34 am

Post by Fart »

In post 3, Vaxkiller wrote:Neat, but the biggest problem I see is when you lynch mafia, you know one of the next few players coming in are mafia.
I think this can be overcome with creative on-the-fly modding and a large enough multi-ball (and/or third party) game.
In post 3, Vaxkiller wrote:Also if you lynch most of the mafia on the original team, the rest of the unlynched original players are conf town.
Yeah that's a problem.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:39 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 4, Fart wrote:...
In post 3, Vaxkiller wrote:Also if you lynch most of the mafia on the original team, the rest of the unlynched original players are conf town.
Yeah that's a problem.
Solution: cults :P
Show
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:52 am

Post by Nachomamma8 »

I played a mafia game that ended up being the best of three rounds - one scum had to survive for a certain amount of time, then next round begun (everyone except for scum was revived, one of the townies was made scum immediately after). I think this would probably be the best way to do it.

Otherwise, if you just want one continuous game, it would almost certainly need alignment changes - not a cult, necessarily, but when one mafia was lynched it should be randomized whether a townie then becomes scum or the entering player then becomes scum, and each separate player earns or loses points based on the lynch.
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:36 am

Post by vonflare »

This is an interesting concept.

I actually really like this. I'd like to mod something like this, I think.

PM me if you're interested in co-modding or helping me design.
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:57 pm

Post by Toto »

I guess it could work if designed right so that you are not able to draw to many conclusions from the replacement. I think Multiball is almost required.

But it would be cool if you can accumulate points the longer you stay in the game. For example, every time you are on the lynch wagon of a member of an opposite faction you gain one point.

When you die you 'lose' but your record is kept somewhere.
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:02 pm

Post by Nachomamma8 »

Would like this but thinking making it multiball would make this a never ending nightmare for town but then again also don't understand what problems get fixed with multiball
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-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:13 pm

Post by Toto »

In post 9, Nachomamma8 wrote:Would like this but thinking making it multiball would make this a never ending nightmare for town but then again also don't understand what problems get fixed with multiball
I'm not sure. I think the challenge is how do you keep the game balanced over time as players die and new players backfill the dead ones, and at the same time make it hard for people to guess the alignment of the newcomers based on the recently deceased's flip.
just because you get evil player role doesn't mean you are a evil person at HEART - KainTepes!!!
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:36 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Although the first round never got started, this may be the closest to what has been described here: viewtopic.php?f=63&t=63080

The challenge in running a single never-ending game is gracefully handling a scum majority in a way other than rerolling.
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:50 am

Post by Plotinus »

What if a dice was rolled and each entering player had a 25% chance of being scum, so sometimes there would be more scum than usual and sometimes less but it would even out over time?
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:02 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

At some point scum will still gain a majority
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:09 am

Post by vonflare »

Here's my take on the idea:

2 red mafia, 1 blue mafia, 10 townies.




if a townie dies, red and blue get a point. A new player joins, and is assigned a role based on this formula:

x% chance of being town, where x = T/(R+B+T)

y% chance of being scum, where y = (R+B)/(R+B+T)

this is to prevent role spec based on incoming players. for example, if a townie dies and another player joins, they're confirmed town unless there is a system like this in place.

if the result is scum, they join the scum faction with the lowest number of members (so the first townie would probably join blue). If they have the same number of members, they join the faction that did NOT receive a member last time scum was added to the game (so it would alternate blue-red-blue-red) unless some scum died.

If its a tie and no scum has been added to the game yet, blue takes priority. (for example if red is lynched D1 and Town is killed N1, and the new player rolls scum, they join blue even though its a tie.)




if a scum player dies, a new player joins the game. they are assigned as town.

then, one random town player becomes scum, following the same rules for joining a faction as above.




red kills on odd nights, blue kills on even nights.




now, obviously, this system would eventually result in scum inflation, and eventually everyone would be scum if the game went on long enough. This is the main problem I have with this method, as there's no way to reduce the number of scum players without

a) confirming a player as town (if I made it so if there is too many scum, newly joined player will automatically be town)

b) force-replacing a player (if I want to implement a system where scum can become town)

can anyone think of a solution to this problem?
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:03 am

Post by Plotinus »

In post 13, Bicephalous Bob wrote:At some point scum will still gain a majority
true. maybe there could be a cap on how many scum players there could be at a time, so if there were already x scum alive then the new player would be town for sure, but people wouldn't know how many scum were alive at any given time. they'd know how many we started out with but they wouldn't know the cap was reached....no, they would, they'd be able to work it out once a lot of cycles had passed with enough flips.

what if it were weighted? like if there was zero scum alive then 66% chance next player is scum, 1 scum alive then maybe 40% chance the next player is scum, if 2 scum alive then 30% chance, if 3 scum alive then 10% chance, if 4+ scum alive then 1% chance. (I'm invisioning a 13 player game and am also making up numbers without too much thought towards these are the numbers that make sense.)
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:37 am

Post by RadiantCowbells »

I had an idea to amek all this work but I think it wold just end up becoming boring and people wouldn't try.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:59 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

In post 10, Toto wrote:
In post 9, Nachomamma8 wrote:Would like this but thinking making it multiball would make this a never ending nightmare for town but then again also don't understand what problems get fixed with multiball
I'm not sure. I think the challenge is how do you keep the game balanced over time as players die and new players backfill the dead ones, and at the same time make it hard for people to guess the alignment of the newcomers based on the recently deceased's flip.
Throw in third parties
That'll fuck up everything
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:21 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

I started designing something like this a while back, but stopped because I doubted that people would enjoy playing it in practice.

The basic win condition was "out of the first four lynches while you're in the game, two or more are on scum" (town win) or "out of the first four lynches while you're in the game, three or more are on town" (scum win). This means that members of a faction didn't
quite
win together (if they joined at different times), but were all nonetheless aiming for much the same goal. If a player won or their victory condition became unachievable, they'd immediately leave the game. It was legal to "reinforce back in" to the game, but a) you could only do it when the entire playerlist at the time you were previously in the game had won/lost/died (so that you had no remaining useful inside information), and b) you had to do it on an alt (so that people didn't get confused between the "old" and "new" slots held by the same player, and had a simple unambiguous way to refer to them).

Alignments of reinforcements is the largest lssue. Thinking about it now, you could probably just use a fixed probability for each new player to be scum, because if a number of players of one alignment are lynched in a row (thus threatening to unbalance the game), a number of players of the other alignment will win the game and leave along with them. Note that player turnover would necessarily be pretty high, but that's probably for the best to prevent the players becoming bored.
scum
· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·
town
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:12 am

Post by Lang Buddha »

In post 0, Fart wrote:As we all know Fart is a half-imbecile so this is beyond me... but what would it look like to design a never-ending forum mafia game?
Spoiler: rest of OP
I'm thinking the game has
some
achievable win-cons, but the game never ends, as there is a regular inflow of new players.

questions and thoughts
:
Could it be designed to allow players to re/in? (maybe once all players who were in the game with you previously are also eliminated)
Would it be fun?
Could it be done?
I think since town and mafia have un-achievable win-cons they will play for bragging rights and the sweet stats the mod would have to compile in post 0.
A team of moderators would be needed to keep it going and they would be completely in control of adapting the roles of the ongoing /ins to the gamestate to make it work.



Someone make this and count this as my pre/in.
Or feel free to shit on the idea ITT.
One game to rule them all, man.
Step 1, man. Start a new subforum, alright? Name it something cool, like Chinatown, hmm?
Step 2, man. Host games. Keep track of mislynches for scum and scum-voting accuracy for town. These will be the bragging rights which will act as currency. If you host games you invest an amount of your money into it, and if the town wins you quadruple it. If scum wins, you lose half of it and get the other half back, man, a-ha?
Step 3, ok? Play as mafia, in the bigger sense, by letting your fellow players know how you play for each alignment, so that you maximize your profits on a collective level, or as town don't, keep that shit for yourself and play how you like, man.
Step 4, hmm? With your past-game scumpoints you can buy roles from hosts, and score big by betting on the games. Ahh, if you know what role you will be, and you know a bunch of players' alignment indicative characteristics, you can smell an opportunity in advance, but be wary of snitches and undercover agents, who gained those roles by playing and winning as cops, aiaiai. Past trackers can track your money flow, and jailkeepers invest money in a game's successful completion and in players for the to stay clean of scummy maneuvers, and will be rewarded financially if no incriminating incidents occur. Godfathers act like beacons and pylons of covert communication, coming up with lingo to infuse flavor with, and coerce newbloods into idolizing organized crime, attract henchmen or communicate instructions, on multiple levels and to multiple layers of the underground movement. While mobs without them keep loosing muscle to undercover operatives, the "father tongue" stalls the danger, keeping it from reaching higher ranked henchmen by creating informational buffers, coded with patterns, which the player with godfather experience updates at will as needed. Victorious past doctors receive an allowance, and sponsor games. Veterans collect taxes and redistribute them according to their availability to replace players as needed (karmy).
Step 5 ..wake up man, there can never be such a thing, man stop dreaming, hmm?
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