Top Newbie mistakes?

[Cabd]

Fake claim gambits win games if done correctly, especially in games with OC

There is no "done correctly". Those gambits fail more often than they succeed. Is it really worth it to destroy ten games to have that singular moment of glory? That's an arbitrary ratio, but I've seen more than my fair share of people thinking that they know what they were doing only to be one of the most destructive players on their team.

As town, they are very situational, but they can help. You have to be smart about it if you want it to work. An example would be if you're a 1x bulletproof in a neighborhood, claim a PR to them to try to bait a kill. If you're hit early you can likely deduce that your neighborhood has scum in it. If the game has free OC chat (which I think is rare on this site, but where I used to play it was the norm), if the cop has contacted/cleared you, you can then fake claim cop (after discussing it with them of course) to test the waters with people and protect the actual cop.

As scum though, a well thought out fakeclaim can all but clear you, especially in games where there is a distinct town leader who you can pocket. It still works best when OC is involved to some degree, but being good at fakeclaiming is an important skill for a scumteam.

Before my first real Hiatus I used to be the "gambits guy"

I had a few hits but a LOT more misses, and when I came back vowed not to do them as a general rule. Some of them were legendary successes sure, but it's not worth it when you ruin a game single-handedly otherwise while being town.

[ExoticQueen]

Actually I think fakeclaimming Mafia can be good when you're neither fool or mob.

[Ircher]

Don't fakeclaim mafia. Don't self-vote. Both of those are treated as universal "scumtells" and will get you lynched 9/10 times without a 2nd thought.

[Zachrulez]

Actually I think fakeclaimming Mafia can be good when you're neither fool or mob.

It's never good if I'm in the game you do it in.

[VysePresident]

Fake claim gambits win games if done correctly, especially in games with OC

There is no "done correctly". Those gambits fail more often than they succeed. Is it really worth it to destroy ten games to have that singular moment of glory? That's an arbitrary ratio, but I've seen more than my fair share of people thinking that they know what they were doing only to be one of the most destructive players on their team.

As town, they are very situational, but they can help. You have to be smart about it if you want it to work. An example would be if you're a 1x bulletproof in a neighborhood, claim a PR to them to try to bait a kill. If you're hit early you can likely deduce that your neighborhood has scum in it. If the game has free OC chat (which I think is rare on this site, but where I used to play it was the norm), if the cop has contacted/cleared you, you can then fake claim cop (after discussing it with them of course) to test the waters with people and protect the actual cop.

As scum though, a well thought out fakeclaim can all but clear you, especially in games where there is a distinct town leader who you can pocket. It still works best when OC is involved to some degree, but being good at fakeclaiming is an important skill for a scumteam.

Fakeclaiming is important for a scumteam.

Knowing when to fakeclaim as Town comes down to knowing not to fakeclaim unless there is no risk whatsoever attached to it. Few players tick me off more than someone who fakeclaims, gets screwed over, and blames the Town for not basking in their brilliance. In reality, most fakeclaims as Town are stupid, and only work due to luck.

(I would agree with fakeclaiming a PR that someone has in your neighborhood so that the less valuable role is targeted. That has no inherent risk because the real PR won't counterclaim for obvious reasons. I can't say I'm comfortable with fakeclaiming a PR within a neighborhood, as there are too many factors involved to do so safely. Better to scumhunt the normal way than to take on an absurdly high risk of screwing Town over massively.)

Refusing to share drawbacks or limits to a role is generally a good thing. (or sometimes, very, very carefully and thoughtfully, inaccurately doing so as long as it doesn't create risks.)

[Kmd4390]

-

Getting frustrated

- This can happen to anyone, but newer players have a tendency to do things that can really ruin their game as well as everyone else's. If you are frustrated with the way a game is going, don't quit. Don't claim scum and/or buddies. Don't self vote. Don't vote someone you don't think is scum. The right answer to frustration is maybe some light venting and then stepping away from the game for a bit. After that, ride it out and play to win. It might, and I say might rather than "will" intentionally, get better. But whether it does or not, your goal is to win the game.

-

Don't worry so much about people's reads on you

- Being townread IS important, but until you are good enough to force that to happen, don't try so hard. If you are town, finding scum is more important. If you are scum, giving off the appearance of trying to find scum is more important. If someone scum reads you, even if their case is strong and even if people sheep it, do NOT focus 100% on that case. It makes you look desperate and will probably be called out as flailing, defensiveness, and AtE whether it actually is or not. Your best course of action is to keep playing your game and pushing your reads. Do some analysis. Whatever it takes to focus on your game and not someone else's. You are your own player. Don't be manipulated.

-

Figure out the right activity level

- If you post too much, you'll be seen as a spammer. If you don't post enough, you'll be seen as a lurker. Either of those things WILL get you lynched from time to time. People don't care if you have nothing better to do or if you are too busy. If your activity level isn't perfect, people WILL scum read you. You want to post a little bit more often than the average poster.

-

Listen to advice

- You are being judged by the people who are trying to help you. Yes, it's ok to be skeptical of the intentions of someone giving advice because they could be scum. But generally, nobody is going to openly steer you wrong when it comes to advice because THEY are being watched and judged too. If someone critiques your play, don't get upset. Listen to what they are saying. We WANT you to know what you are doing and improve as a player.

-

Take advantage of PTs with scumbuddies and mason partners

- If you have private communication with someone who you know is on your team, you know you are getting genuine help from someone who wants you to succeed. Ask questions. Be active in those PTs. Work with your partners.

-

Don't keep saying you are new

- It's ok, and actually preferable, to be open and honest about your experience level. But once everyone knows you are new, re-asserting it isn't helping you. At that point, it's seen as an excuse and "playing the newbie card". Mention it if asked. If you aren't asked, mention it the first time you don't understand something. After that, don't say anything else about it.

[Kmd4390]

I keep seeing stuff about fakeclaiming. Talk to your scumbuddies about the right fakeclaim. If you don't have scumbuddies, you're already fakeclaiming incorrectly. Be consistent with your claim. DO NOT change your claim. Make sure the claim makes sense with the setup. For example, if one role flips odd night, another is even night, and someone has claimed 1 shot, claiming full cop probably isn't going to be as believable as nonconsecutive cop. Also, the less standard your role is, the more believable because people don't think you'd have thought of it for some reason even though if it was real the mod obviously thought of it AND actually put it in the game. Nonstandard roles are also less likely to be counterclaimed. Ignore that last bit in normal games.

[BBmolla]

Inc. wall of test.

Can I ask you guys something? Why do you RL d1? It's apparently a normal strategy here but I don't understand it.

I mean let's logically look at the possible outcomes:

Either 55% or 66% chance of hitting townie.
22% of hitting maf.
11% to 22% of hitting a PR.

So just judging by percentages we have just as much of a chance of hitting mafia as we do a power role.

Now let's get specific, if we RL maf they can either:
1. Claim a Power Role
2. Claim to be blue, probably proceeding with the RL anyway.(Maf dies)

Now if they do 1, then there are two more possibilties:
A. No CC
B. A CC

If A occurs it means:
C. The role does not exist within the game.
D. The role does not want to speak up.

If either C or D occur, a lynch would be unwise on an uncc'd PR. (Although, I haven't really seen the whole "role my not even exist" factor so idk about that)


If B occurs it means:
E. We lynch a mafia.(Maf dies)
F. We lynch a Power Role.(Maf lives)

Lynching a blue d1, which will undoubtedly happen, will just cause the town to be even more widdled down and allow the mafia to have a better chance of hitting a power role. The percent goes from 14%/28% to 17%/33%.

Attempting to lynch a PR will at least cause them to have to claim which, 66% of the games will cause them to die by getting killed by the mafia, 100% if they're doc. Of course jailer could jail them but then the doc/cop becomes a blue essentially.

You can find flaws in my logic, but going off of nothing seems to be more mafia beneficial.

Not random lynch, random vote. First votes are rarely the reason for a lynch. I think your misunderstanding the process. A D1 lynch is always on someone who has garnered the most suspicion, not who people randomly voted at the beginning. Votes and questions both stimulate discussion that eventually leads to a lynch. You are thinking into it too much.

What do you suggest is done?

There can only be two PR max in this setup. A mafia with a power role claim leaves themselves in the open for two other people to claim their power.

Many flaws in your speculation. Sometimes mafia keeps a power role around for various reasons, such as they believe town will eventually lynch them or that their reads are terrible enough for keeping them around.

A random lynch is certainly anti-town, but thats not what we're doing here.

I'm all down for a discussion, but if nothing has actually occured within the game what is their to discuss?

It's just different, I'll go with it, but don't expect me to lead any lynches d1.

and

@YYR:

Nope. Now I know what happened.

BBmolla is the mafia rolecop. This may not be the best of times to reveal this, but I'm just a VT. I just fake claimed jailkeeper so I wouldn't get lynched earlier in the game because I claimed VT. BBmolla is a cop, but working for the mafia. Night 1 he probably inspected me, and saw I was only a VT. That's why no one went after me. Of course, he didn't die, because he's working for the mafia. He then CC'd doctor, and never bothered to kill me night 2 because

• I'm only a VT. I'm not an actual PR.
  
• He could pretend to protect me.

Thus, he'd look like he's town, and go on to win the game (as mafia). It all makes sense now. I don't (for sure) know who is partner is yet, but I want to get through today (by lynching BBmolla), and worry about who is partner is tomorrow.

VOTE: BBmolla

^...Wait what

Mcqueen, you do realize that if you retract I'm clear right?

There has to be one PR, and if I'm the only claim, I'm 100% clear.

good times

[Gamma Emerald]

I have a page I made on the wiki about some Town-killing mistakes
Page me if you wanna see something added

[Alchemist21]

You gotta link the actual wiki page.

[Gamma Emerald]

Here it is.

[Ircher]

Dunno if thi has been mentioned, but joining too many games is also a somewhat common newbie mistake.

[Gamma Emerald]

I edited it a bit. Changed the beginning because of the new trend of Town wins, and made it clear I'd allow edits from others. Not sure if that will work though, since it's an article.

[Gamma Emerald]

Inc. wall of test.

Can I ask you guys something? Why do you RL d1? It's apparently a normal strategy here but I don't understand it.

I mean let's logically look at the possible outcomes:

Either 55% or 66% chance of hitting townie.
22% of hitting maf.
11% to 22% of hitting a PR.

So just judging by percentages we have just as much of a chance of hitting mafia as we do a power role.

Now let's get specific, if we RL maf they can either:
1. Claim a Power Role
2. Claim to be blue, probably proceeding with the RL anyway.(Maf dies)

Now if they do 1, then there are two more possibilties:
A. No CC
B. A CC

If A occurs it means:
C. The role does not exist within the game.
D. The role does not want to speak up.

If either C or D occur, a lynch would be unwise on an uncc'd PR. (Although, I haven't really seen the whole "role my not even exist" factor so idk about that)


If B occurs it means:
E. We lynch a mafia.(Maf dies)
F. We lynch a Power Role.(Maf lives)

Lynching a blue d1, which will undoubtedly happen, will just cause the town to be even more widdled down and allow the mafia to have a better chance of hitting a power role. The percent goes from 14%/28% to 17%/33%.

Attempting to lynch a PR will at least cause them to have to claim which, 66% of the games will cause them to die by getting killed by the mafia, 100% if they're doc. Of course jailer could jail them but then the doc/cop becomes a blue essentially.

You can find flaws in my logic, but going off of nothing seems to be more mafia beneficial.

Not random lynch, random vote. First votes are rarely the reason for a lynch. I think your misunderstanding the process. A D1 lynch is always on someone who has garnered the most suspicion, not who people randomly voted at the beginning. Votes and questions both stimulate discussion that eventually leads to a lynch. You are thinking into it too much.

What do you suggest is done?

There can only be two PR max in this setup. A mafia with a power role claim leaves themselves in the open for two other people to claim their power.

Many flaws in your speculation. Sometimes mafia keeps a power role around for various reasons, such as they believe town will eventually lynch them or that their reads are terrible enough for keeping them around.

A random lynch is certainly anti-town, but thats not what we're doing here.

I'm all down for a discussion, but if nothing has actually occured within the game what is their to discuss?

It's just different, I'll go with it, but don't expect me to lead any lynches d1.

and

@YYR:

Nope. Now I know what happened.

BBmolla is the mafia rolecop. This may not be the best of times to reveal this, but I'm just a VT. I just fake claimed jailkeeper so I wouldn't get lynched earlier in the game because I claimed VT. BBmolla is a cop, but working for the mafia. Night 1 he probably inspected me, and saw I was only a VT. That's why no one went after me. Of course, he didn't die, because he's working for the mafia. He then CC'd doctor, and never bothered to kill me night 2 because

• I'm only a VT. I'm not an actual PR.
  
• He could pretend to protect me.

Thus, he'd look like he's town, and go on to win the game (as mafia). It all makes sense now. I don't (for sure) know who is partner is yet, but I want to get through today (by lynching BBmolla), and worry about who is partner is tomorrow.

VOTE: BBmolla

^...Wait what

Mcqueen, you do realize that if you retract I'm clear right?

There has to be one PR, and if I'm the only claim, I'm 100% clear.

good times

Would be nice if anyone knew what you were talking about. What game was this?

[BBmolla]

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=19284&hilit=Bbmolla

He claimed Jailkeeper in 2of4, which is always confirmed to have one PR. I was Doctor and claimed as so. He unclaimed JK to push hard on me... even though it confirmed me as town.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Dunno if thi has been mentioned, but joining too many games is also a somewhat common newbie mistake.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm adding "pay attention to the setup info" to my list
I've noticed that's a major issue in Open games and theme games with setup info posted.