Be a Team Player: A lost Artform

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Post Post #25 (ISO) » Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:47 pm

Post by BBmolla »

Thor and zMuffinman both use that kind of style and they do pretty well
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Post Post #26 (ISO) » Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:04 pm

Post by Antihero »

i've played several games w thor and have yet to see him have anything other than garbage reads

the pool of people who should have that "playstyle" is a lot smaller than some seem to think
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Post Post #27 (ISO) » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:24 pm

Post by Cabd »

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=72090

"How to teamplay the ever-loving fuck out of a game of mafia: Example 1"
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Post Post #28 (ISO) » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:22 am

Post by mastina »

So I published this article on the wiki. I hope the formatting is acceptable; I tried to keep things as close as I could to the original.

I do have a proposed alternative formatting if that would be preferable.

It's your article so you're obviously free to make any changes you want to but if you want me to do any changes let me know and I can try to make them.
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Post Post #29 (ISO) » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:50 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 26, Antihero wrote:i've played several games w thor and have yet to see him have anything other than garbage reads

the pool of people who should have that "playstyle" is a lot smaller than some seem to think
Interesting. I've played several with him (amusingly enough, we've always been town) and never seen him NOT have good reads, though he has been weirdly lynchbaity sometimes.
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Post Post #30 (ISO) » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:36 am

Post by Bomberman »

In post 28, mastina wrote:So I published this article on the wiki. I hope the formatting is acceptable; I tried to keep things as close as I could to the original.

I do have a proposed alternative formatting if that would be preferable.

It's your article so you're obviously free to make any changes you want to but if you want me to do any changes let me know and I can try to make them.
I like your formatting, so feel free to implement it.
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Post Post #31 (ISO) » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:43 am

Post by Flubbernugget »

In post 29, mhsmith0 wrote:
In post 26, Antihero wrote:i've played several games w thor and have yet to see him have anything other than garbage reads

the pool of people who should have that "playstyle" is a lot smaller than some seem to think
Interesting. I've played several with him (amusingly enough, we've always been town) and never seen him NOT have good reads, though he has been weirdly lynchbaity sometimes.
When he correctly scum read me last time I played with him I spamflamed him to make sure there wasn't any attention on my buddy. I still think it would have worked had my buddy not flaked out.
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Post Post #32 (ISO) » Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:19 pm

Post by Mulch »

I disagree that logic trump all in mafia imo
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Post Post #33 (ISO) » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:32 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 26, Antihero wrote:i've played several games w thor and have yet to see him have anything other than garbage reads
thor is much better than zmuffin.

Haven't read the op yet but getting 10 or more players to play as a "team" is way harder than it sounds. Beyond that, mafia is super subjective and what's scummy to one or more people might not be scummy to the next and so on. I also don't really think that sort of "groupthink" is going to be very effective and it kinda boils down to ad populism.
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edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #34 (ISO) » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:34 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 33, Nero Cain wrote:mafia is super subjective
Yeah I could tell that much just by your opening statement:
thor is much better than zmuffin.
:P
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Post Post #35 (ISO) » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:53 am

Post by Randomnamechange »

the trick is not to exclude people. This is a weakness of townbloc play - you end up not playing with anyone outside of the townbloc and that destroys the town. talk to everyone not just specific groups of people. I think this is an issue in the current meta partially contributed to by the spam activity meta.
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Post Post #36 (ISO) » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:58 am

Post by Antihero »

In post 29, mhsmith0 wrote:
In post 26, Antihero wrote:i've played several games w thor and have yet to see him have anything other than garbage reads

the pool of people who should have that "playstyle" is a lot smaller than some seem to think
Interesting. I've played several with him (amusingly enough, we've always been town) and never seen him NOT have good reads, though he has been weirdly lynchbaity sometimes.
/shrug. maybe i just caught him at bad times.

my point that you shouldn't play like an arrogant dick still stands bc no matter how good you are you'll eventually have off games and if you're a massive jackass WHILE being spectacularly wrong, people will remember that and resent you later

firebringer's sig used to have a line about being nice to your scumreads bc you could be wrong and i agree w that
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Post Post #37 (ISO) » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:00 am

Post by Randomnamechange »

^ good post.
IMO even if you are right people won't have enjoyed playing with you and you are unlikely to actually be that much of an asset as people wont want to work with you
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Post Post #38 (ISO) » Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:14 pm

Post by Dragnalus »

I remember thor very vaguely and his playstyle only works if you let him get under your skin, which isn't always best for town.
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Post Post #39 (ISO) » Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:08 am

Post by zMuffinMan »

tbh, while the tips in the last part of the op are decent general pointers, they aren't really "teamplay"-related things (except insofar as improving your game in general is good for your team?)

"teamplay", to me, boils down to having a conversation with people who disagree with you about why they disagree with you and then coming out of that conversation with some common ground (regardless of what you think of their alignment) - and if you can't come out of it with some common ground for whatever reason, you should at least come out of it with a better read on them before you move on to trying to work with someone else

just conversations like:

bob: hey, mary, why are you voting Xx_NarUtOfAn69_xX? i think he's more likely town than scum for reasons x, y, z
mary: because he has a shitty username
bob: well, ok, i don't think that's a good reason to think someone's scum because even people with names like "nero cain" can roll town occasinally, so a shitty username has no bearing on alignment
mary: yeah, well he's no "nero cain", but he has a pretty shitty username, you've got to admit
bob: sure, but again, that doesn't make him scum. you think mastin is scum, right? would you be willing to vote mastin instead?
mary:
oh, god yes, i would policy lynch that 365 days a year
yeah, if it comes down to it, but fuck me his name is Xx_NarUtOfAn69_xX... i mean, come on...

etc etc

in that sense, "respect" to me means giving people the time of day with regards to their reads and explanations for those reads and i dont think respect should be conflated with niceness and i dont think respect is something you should give universally just "because" but something you give to a player who deserves it - i.e. someone who is willing to interact with you about reads

the other thing about "teamplay" that i think is important and i'll never understand why some people play like they do in this sense is openness - i don't think you need to lay every card on the table (there's some merit to being reserved with giving reads in the early stages of a day phase if you think it can lead you somewhere in the later stages), but i think openness is the single most important aspect of teamplay that a lot of mafia players seem to lack because they think it's not good for one reason or another (and those reasons never make sense to me when i see them given) - you dont even need to be open about
all
of your reads, but at least throw the players you're playing with a bone and talk about your actual reads once in a while

i suppose that last paragraph sort of ties in with the "leave no thought unfinished" sentiment, but i think that should apply to
all
reads, not just the player you're voting for
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Post Post #40 (ISO) » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:09 am

Post by Human Sequencer »

In post 39, zMuffinMan wrote:bob: hey, mary, why are you voting Xx_NarUtOfAn69_xX? i think he's more likely town than scum for reasons x, y, z
mary: because he has a shitty username
bob: well, ok, i don't think that's a good reason to think someone's scum because even people with names like "nero cain" can roll town occasinally, so a shitty username has no bearing on alignment
mary: yeah, well he's no "nero cain", but he has a pretty shitty username, you've got to admit
bob: sure, but again, that doesn't make him scum. you think mastin is scum, right? would you be willing to vote mastin instead?
mary: oh, god yes, i would policy lynch that 365 days a year yeah, if it comes down to it, but fuck me his name is Xx_NarUtOfAn69_xX... i mean, come on...
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