What I want to tackle is not a certain playstyle that I believe needs to be stamped out, rather just needs to be refined. The issues that stem from the thread mentioned is the idea of hyperposting attributing to a poor gamestate, but the means of fixing those issues are causing derision and making others feel attacked for playing a certain way. I do not believe that is what is beneficial in the long run, therefore I want to offer some insight on problems I believe these players face.In post 165, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:This is the actual problem with the site.In post 163, Vi wrote:In post 160, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I'm just saying that a restriction doesn't solve the issue. This is an emotional game and people aren't just going to suddenly become robots and not express themselves the way they reasonably want to.Therein lies the problem. Your issue is not the one being addressed in this thread (and yours a lot harder to tackle anyway because it requires everyone on site to play better; good luck with that).you wrote:The abundance of posting is not the problem. It's egotistical like play coming from people who solely use meta and shit tells.
We know people need to get better but we don't want to put the work in to help people get better. We rather police how others play so we don't have to try as hard.
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Introduction: What is the essence of a Team Player?
At it's core, Mafia is inherently a team game. The town works together to ensure scum is lynched and the scum work on using deception and stifling town's advances towards finding all members. I personally feel that this idea is something that is lost on new players, therefore I want to clarify what I believe promotes team play.
What good Team Play is:
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Allowing everyone to speak.
If you think about it in laymen's terms, cooperation is something that is taught in grade school. When you need to work with someone on a project, what type of environment do you feel is most beneficial? Is it someone who directs the ideas for everyone and commands leadership by speaking the most, or is it when everyone is able to speak their mind? Letting people get their thoughts out and having their say may allow you to see a perspective you did not see prior.
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Giving respect.
This is something I see a lot more but there is a very common theme in current trends where people take opinions as if they were brandishing a weapon at them. A lot of players are more keen on feeling they are personally attacked, therefore they act out in a way that is harmful to the gamestate. When someone disagrees with you, it is not a foundation for thinking you are bad.
You should treat these opportunities as something beneficial instead of simply discouraging, because it gives the opportunity to bounce back and forth on ideas.-
Working towards a common goal.
At the end of the day, what matters after all the discussion is where your vote is. Wanting to capture lightning in a bottle or trying to not let your scumread slip is one thing, but the means of going about it is another. You need to realize that everyone who is town wants the same thing you do, which is to lynch scum.
The means of doing so may be different for each player, but I believe some ways are far more effective than others, which is the point of this discussion.What isn't good Team Play:
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Centering discussion around yourself.
Treating yourself above the cut of everyone else is not only obnoxious but it is also poisonous to proper discussion. When you direct a game based purely on your ideals, you are going against the idea of being a Team Player.
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Using ad hominiem to undermine players.
- This falls in line of giving respect, but you will find that people will be more cooperative and less evasive if you choose to be more selective in the way you give your criticism. Saying someone is bad, wrong, or stupid does not make your argument instantly better.
I think a lot of players believe if they put down someone who is attacking them, they will reconsider because they believe it will instill fear in them. Nobody wants to feel stupid, bad, or wrong, therefore people use ad hominiem to make people reconsider. -
Assuming you're always right.
I see this a lot more than often than not, surprisingly. A lot of people like to talk themselves up due to past games or even events prior to posture themselves. Commanding respect does not require you to be obnoxious.
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Underestimating someone's ability.
Dismissing someone immediately gives you an immediate confirmation bias that whatever a person says isn't worthwhile. This is not good for town because it allows scum to follow directives that someone simply should not be listened to, therefore they do not have to involve themselves nor appease what they have to say.
This also makes people feel generally insignificant, and causes them to want to post less. I really believe that there is not a single bad Mafia player, as Mafia is not the same as many other games. Being good at Mafia is not always having the greatest reads, rather it is ensuring pro-town behavior.-
Being unable to accept you were wrong.
This plays in part of 'thinking you're always right', but a lot of people don't understand humility, therefore they don't learn from the mistakes they make. Nobody is perfect, therefore you shouldn't treat yourself as the same. Accept your mistakes and you will find that you will learn from them much easier.
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How To Get People In Your Corner or How I Learned To Love and Accept That Not Everyone Is Against Me
If you ever feel like your voice is not being heard, it is very likely that you lack the ability to be
convincing
. This is a staple of good town-play and one that is lost for a more indirect shouting match between two or three people trying to get others to change their mind. Here are some ways to ensure that people will listen to you and that your voice will be heard, all the while still letting others do the same.-
Let no thought go unfinished. (Who/What/Where/Why)
A lot of the time, people will make post after post that usually don't reach a proper conclusion. This leads to either people simply skipping what you have to say or not understanding the gist of your argument. You can fix this by using modifiers to your sentences in a way that makes you more understandable and easier on the eyes.
This is an unfinished thought. There is no proper conclusion therefore we have nothing to go off of as to why you think this player is Mafia.Example A wrote:I think Player Y is scum.
Vote: Player Y
We can only make guesses and assumption based on interaction, but that only gives us so much because you did not give a proper conclusion for everyone, only for yourself.
Ask yourself:
Who
am I voting? What
did they do that made me vote them? Where
did this instance occur that made me believe they were scum? And finally, Why
are they scum because of it? You'd be surprised that a lot of issues that I fixed are merely literary tricks and terms that can be applied in everyday discussion. Of course, there is a lot more nuance to this and is not simply answering Who/What/Where/Why every time, but it is a good foundation and can get people to start seeing where you are coming from.Example B wrote:I think Player Y is scumbecause(Who/What/Where/Why)
Vote: Player Y
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Logic trumps all.
At the end of the day, the person who wins is the person whom is being the most logical. Logic can be applied through understanding the gamestate and applying what you know to advance it further. Logic is using your cognition to make decisions based on evidence.
A lot of players these days simply ignore logic and focus on either one thing at a time, or too many things at a time. There are a lot of assumptions that are made that only lead to incomplete thought, therefore it is hard to follow. This is easily rectified by exerting behavior that makes it seem like you know what you are talking about. Mafia is in a sense is a form of heightened debate, and you will go a lot farther if you apply logic to your arguments, instead of baseless assumptions.-
Put it all together/Step back from the thread.
There's only so much that you as a person can do, but a lot of people feel as if they have to do everything. Stepping back from the thread to think about where you stand is far more beneficial instead of remaining in the thread pursuing incomplete thought.
You need to take a moment and think about what it is you're doing and give it purpose next time you come back. You will find people will not only agree with you more often, but that your play will be less scatterbrained and more efficient. A simple way to do this is to compile a readslist or one post where you let everyone know where you're at instead of making people dig through continual posts and interactions done haphazardly. It will save you time and it will save everyone else time. -
Applying right pressure.
Pressure is great to put someone in the hotseat to gauge their responses, but sometimes too much pressure or wrong pressure can be bad. The idea of right pressure for me personally is pressuring someone on something you don't know or want to know.
Pressure is not simply making hyperbolic statements about a scumread or shutting someone down because 'they are scum', it is working with someone or having nuance in the way you interact with someone. Ask yourself: Is the pressure I'm applying going to benefit others to see something that I feel is being ignored? Is this pressure warranted because the player I am pressuring did not clarify about something I want them to? Will these reactions prove beneficial? Who is the person I am pressuring and how do they react to pressure?
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Know your players.
This plays a bit in part of applying right pressure, but not everyone is going to react or play in a way you think is right/agreeable. What sets 'good' players and 'bad' mafia players is that people take in account who someone is, or how they are presenting themselves.
You need to tick the right boxes with certain people and play to their level at times so you can seem reasonable. It's gonna be hard for people to listen to you if you approach them in a way that is not understandable, from their perspective. This can mean a wide arrange of things, but that can be another topic.-
Give purpose to your posts.
When you make a post, make it count. Don't make a post if you think it won't matter in the long run. Make sure you're following everything previously discussed and applying it to your rhetoric.
A big thing I was told is to really think about what you want to say before saying it, and I think this can apply to everyone. A lot of people believe in the idea that their thought will be lost if they don't get it out immediately, but they never consider if that thought was something that wasn't already answered or even worthwhile. You can lessen the amount of times you need to reiterate yourself by making sure you're following these guidelines.-
Know yourself/Applying nuance to your play.
No Mafia player plays the same. You should not seek to imitate a certain style because it's hard to understand the nuance that comes with it. I'm not sure if that's what people do these days, but if you want to really stand out and feel like you matter in a game, you will develop a playstyle that will be easily recognizable and your own. Understanding what works for you is crucial to developing as a Mafia player, and benefits everyone in the long run. --
Conclusion
I just want to say thanks for reading this if you do, and that anyone should feel free to ask questions about anything I discussed. I am not going to treat myself as the perfect Mafia player nor am I going to assume that everything I said is absolutely right, because I would like to represent the things that I have said here. I believe that if we all work together, MS can be an enjoyable and great place to play again, therefore I remain optimistic in what it can be. I know I didn't cover everything, and I'm sure there's a lot to disagree with, but feel free to do so.
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