Help Me Design a Modbot to Help You Run Your Games

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Post Post #50 (ISO) » Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:46 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Personally I'd like to see something that let you see the vote count at a certain post, instead of only the current vote count.
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Post Post #51 (ISO) » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:26 am

Post by callforjudgement »

In post 5, Ircher wrote:Pedit: I'm not saying it won't be appreciated. I'm saying there is a lack of interest in such tools otherwise things like Thesp's Automatic Votecounter would be more prevalent at the moment. Also -- how many mods use the autolock feature at the moment?
At least one setup idea I had only worked because of the autolock, so I'm glad it was there.

In general, the autolock isn't something that should be observable to players under most circumstances (if the game actually hits deadline, something is probably wrong), so it's possible that a large number of mods use it but it hardly ever comes up.
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Post Post #52 (ISO) » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:31 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 51, callforjudgement wrote:In general, the autolock isn't something that should be observable to players under most circumstances (if the game actually hits deadline, something is probably wrong), so it's possible that a large number of mods use it but it hardly ever comes up.
I use auto-lock every game.
The thing is my deadlines are almost always 21 days so that time basically never ever expires. So people end up not seeing it in most cases.

It does however happen on occasion. If memory serves me, the original Hilariously Unbalanced Mafia ran to deadline on D1 and thus auto-locked. (I was busy with college at the time I remember at the very least.)
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Post Post #53 (ISO) » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:35 pm

Post by mastina »

(Incidentally. If a bot could ever do what I do in my votecounts. I would be thoroughly impressed. I track differences between bolded votes and tagged votes, the difference between a named unvote and an unnamed unvote, and the difference between an unvote-revote in the same post or just a flat vote switch. I also do this while not counting cheeky shit: if a player votes twenty times in a single post I only count the last valid vote; if a player is already voting a player and casts a vote for said player I won't count their second vote because their first vote still applies. Between these factors combined with just how much I keep track of you get a fair idea of the difficulty involved.)
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Post Post #54 (ISO) » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:38 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

In post 53, mastina wrote:I track differences between bolded votes and tagged votes
Why
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Post Post #55 (ISO) » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:42 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 54, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 53, mastina wrote:I track differences between bolded votes and tagged votes
Why
Because they used to mean something different to me. Bolded tagged (un)votes were me being unsure of myself. Vote tags were me being confident, or pretending to be confident, in my vote. So I'd do bold tags for weaker votes, and vote tags for stronger votes.

Now, granted.
My meta shifted so that I became more arrogant and thus no need to ever display the lack of confidence. :P
But the habit remains in my modded games because I figure if bold vs. tags was different to me it could be different to someone else, and thus, different to someone else = affects VCA.
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Post Post #56 (ISO) » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:43 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

So something probably only done by you
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Post Post #57 (ISO) » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:47 pm

Post by Plotinus »

I used to use the autolock but I always forgot to change the timer when I was granting a deadline extension and the thread would lock itself when they still had time left, so I stopped using it.
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Post Post #58 (ISO) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:36 am

Post by Psyche »

Hey guys. The votecounter is done. It works better than I even imagined back in post 16. To give you a sense of its performance, consider this: over a sample of nearly 300 games drawn from the Mini Normal Archive where D1 ends in a lynch, it gets the final D1 votecount right 98.65% of the time (excluding mistakes based on events like when someone has died N0 or someone is a doublevoter that the votecounter is not designed to note since it exclusively extracts and counts votes in threads). The rest of the errors can be easily handled through aliasing - I have literally none of that programmed into the votecounter thus far despite its near perfect success rate.

Of course, the votecounter will still need improving/testing, and I'm in the process of that, but I'm confident that the votecounter will work reliably for modding purposes with far fewer exceptions than you'd think. It's extremely flexible and often more reliably catches votes than moderators themselves, but at the same time manages to match moderator intuitions about what counts as a vote with impressive consistency. It works by attempting a variety strategies for matching vote strings to players in an order increasing in breadth but decreasing in potential accuracy (for example, starting by seeing if the vote string perfectly matches a player name, eventually coming to a point where it's checked if the votestring is a misspelled abbreviation of a player name and so forth), abandoning any strategy that matches more than one player to a vote, and only at the end as a last resort simply selecting the player whose levenshtein distance from the vote string is the lowest. The result is a simple program that takes advantage of voter specificity when it happens but is ready for ambiguity when that happens instead. It's p cool.

Now, my top priorities for this Modbot project now that v1.0 of the votecounter is done is to 1) continue to find and work out kinks, and 2) build your confidence in its ability to reliably track votes in real time and so help you mod games.

To achieve this, I'm gonna program you a web-based demo of the votecounter. It will take a thread url, daystart post number that defaults to 0 (so you can collect vote counts for individual days without me trying to code something that guesses that stuff), and a list of living players/slots (I'll need to provide for replacements), and output what the votecounter believes is the most up to date votecount for that Day. I'll probably have it accept aliases, too, but if the votecounter's success depends on extensive aliasing, then it's not necessarily a worthwhile one. It'll be simple at first (I have little experience making web-based demos), but ultimately I hope to make it support a lot of the functions discussed in this thread, including giving moderators an opportunity to decide how a votecount will be formatted and tracking/displaying the url in which votes have happened. Maybe even mastina's stuff.

Once I have a fully fledged demo working and no one is dissatisfied with how it works, we can talk about automating the votecounter and other mod activities. Still, though this will be a demo, it should be immediately useful to moderators since it will do votecounts for them. As the votecounter improves and you guys build confidence in it, hopefully you'll see it as a real alternative to scrolling through threads and eyeballing every post.
Last edited by Psyche on Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #59 (ISO) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:39 am

Post by keyenpeydee »

Ooohhh I'd love to try the votecounter!
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Post Post #60 (ISO) » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:41 am

Post by Psyche »

...maybe the "web-based demo" should just be a bot account that operates on the site through pms? or is that sketchy?
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Post Post #61 (ISO) » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:32 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

If you send your username matching method to thesp, you might find him willing to implement it in http://www.robandkriskris.com/votecounter/. I don't know if he's still around, though.
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Post Post #62 (ISO) » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:59 pm

Post by fferyllt »

I'd like to test your vote counter in a live game.
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Post Post #63 (ISO) » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:13 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 58, Psyche wrote:Hey guys. The votecounter is done. It works better than I even imagined back in post 16. To give you a sense of its performance, consider this: over a sample of nearly 300 games drawn from the Mini Normal Archive where D1 ends in a lynch, it gets the final D1 votecount right 98.65% of the time (excluding mistakes based on events like when someone has died N0 or someone is a doublevoter that the votecounter is not designed to note since it exclusively extracts and counts votes in threads). The rest of the errors can be easily handled through aliasing - I have literally none of that programmed into the votecounter thus far despite its near perfect success rate.

Of course, the votecounter will still need improving/testing, and I'm in the process of that, but I'm confident that the votecounter will work reliably for modding purposes with far fewer exceptions than you'd think. It's extremely flexible and often more reliably catches votes than moderators themselves, but at the same time manages to match moderator intuitions about what counts as a vote with impressive consistency. It works by attempting a variety strategies for matching vote strings to players in an order increasing in breadth but decreasing in potential accuracy (for example, starting by seeing if the vote string perfectly matches a player name, eventually coming to a point where it's checked if the votestring is a misspelled abbreviation of a player name and so forth), abandoning any strategy that matches more than one player to a vote, and only at the end as a last resort simply selecting the player whose levenshtein distance from the vote string is the lowest. The result is a simple program that takes advantage of voter specificity when it happens but is ready for ambiguity when that happens instead. It's p cool.

Now, my top priorities for this Modbot project now that v1.0 of the votecounter is done is to 1) continue to find and work out kinks, and 2) build your confidence in its ability to reliably track votes in real time and so help you mod games.

To achieve this, I'm gonna program you a web-based demo of the votecounter. It will take a thread url, daystart post number that defaults to 0 (so you can collect vote counts for individual days without me trying to code something that guesses that stuff), and a list of living players/slots (I'll need to provide for replacements), and output what the votecounter believes is the most up to date votecount for that Day. I'll probably have it accept aliases, too, but if the votecounter's success depends on extensive aliasing, then it's not necessarily a worthwhile one. It'll be simple at first (I have little experience making web-based demos), but ultimately I hope to make it support a lot of the functions discussed in this thread, including giving moderators an opportunity to decide how a votecount will be formatted and tracking/displaying the url in which votes have happened. Maybe even mastina's stuff.

Once I have a fully fledged demo working and no one is dissatisfied with how it works, we can talk about automating the votecounter and other mod activities. Still, though this will be a demo, it should be immediately useful to moderators since it will do votecounts for them. As the votecounter improves and you guys build confidence in it, hopefully you'll see it as a real alternative to scrolling through threads and eyeballing every post.

Sniff I have one too lol

Does all the wagon data.

I didn't know someone else was working on one.

Please hit me up when you get a chance. It's in c# (coded with Unity)
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Post Post #64 (ISO) » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:55 pm

Post by Psyche »

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Post Post #65 (ISO) » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:19 pm

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Post Post #66 (ISO) » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:20 pm

Post by MathBlade »

Mainly I am impressed with moderator intuitions.

That's the last thing I have for mine and one other element.
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