Help Me Design a Modbot to Help You Run Your Games

[Psyche]

would be really interested to know if there's a mod deficit

[zoraster]

Well, not doing a deep dive right now, but any time you see something like this: viewforum.php?f=4 where there are no games in sign ups (for large themes) it'st at least fairly likely that at least one queue isn't meeting the demand.

[Psyche]

theme queue seems harder to serve but i'll keep that in mind
arist's ideas were cool; i like the idea of linking to each vote normally that would be tedious for any real mod to do but for a bot would not

i wonder if anyone can link or otherwise provide me a votecount in a completed game that is particularly well-formatted and would look nice implemented by a bot

i think ill get started on this today!

[zoraster]

i don't think you need to solve the issue of mod supply, psyche. I'm just saying that anything that reduces mod burden, particularly in games that are liable to explode due to player count, can have more broad effects than just "it's nice for mods"

[Psyche]

BUT IMAGINE

[Human Sequencer]

1.

Based on my limited modding experience, my priorities would be.
Votecounts>updating the OP>sending role PMs>night actions>detecting/sending prods>flips
-I don't think generating or assigning role PMs to certain slots is really that much of an issue, because you do it once and don't have to worry about it again. The actual time is spent manually sending each role PM to the slot that needs it, and forwarding role PMs to replacements. There's no reason that shouldn't be done by a bot, doing it manually is just busywork and opens up the potential for error.

2.

Personally I would prefer a desktop application that posts and edits through your account, but the 'desktop application' preference might not be the norm. I assume it'd take a lot more work to build a program for windoze AND mac and even potentially phones as opposed to just a simple google doc.
-I don't see a point to giving the bot it's own separate account, just adds another slot onto the list of people who have posted in the thread and it's nicer to have all of the moderation done through one account to keep things minimal and simple.
-The best way I can see is an application you pull up and are greeted with a list of options. The options include things such as
'Schedule/do votecount(s)'
'Schedule prod check/prod players'
'Edit votecount formatting' (will get to this when I address 3)
'Replace player'
and so on.

-I'm not so sure how to explain this, but I theorize the best way to make it as simple and intuitive as possible is to set up the game, fill the bot up with information about the game (players, roles, alignments, deadlines, etc) and then let it run its course with the game as it plays, with it scraping information from the thread to update its own information bank as it keeps the thread updated and mods for you. It's important that the bot is overridable in the case of unforseen circumstances or unusual happenings, and a way to directly edit the values the bot is using to keep this information on the gamestate is an easy way to do that. If you need to extend the deadline, you just update the box that says 'current deadline is x'. Let me know if this is unclear and/or stupid.

3.

This is an interesting conundrum, because many mods are very very proud of the way they do their votecounts. However I think there's a pretty intuitive solution, although it might be difficult to program.

-So what's the common thread among all votecounts? They're consistent, and they're formulaic. Let me pick this apart.
This is a votecount taken from this game, modded by Xalxe (pardon my horrible play).

Spoiler:

Vote Count 2.4

Self reflection is important! Whether you like what you see is up for debate. Whether it can be contained in a dark basement is another matter entirely.

Joshz (2)

: HowardRoark, Huntress

Human Sequencer (2)

: Hellfire Missile, Sobolev Space

Hellfire Missile (1)

: Joshz

Sobolev Space (1)

: Human Sequencer

Not Voting

: Locust

With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2016-12-15 10:46:08)

-This has a format that every votecount in that game follows. The format is:

Spoiler:

[title]
[flavour quote]
VOTE:
[with x alive y to lynch]
[deadline reminder]

-That's obviously a major oversimplification, but you understand what I mean here.
-You could design a format in the bot and have the bot remember it, and then all of the votecounts done in that game will be done using that vote format. All you'd have to do is manually enter what flavour/pictures you want, and the rest would be done automagically. I'm not sure exactly how difficult that would be to program, it sounds pretty difficult if I'm being honest, but when you ask me what a perfect moderator tool would be like, that's my answer.

Just my 2 cents. I'd try asking some people who moderate frequently, or pming them this thread.

[Psyche]

thank you

[fferyllt]

As long as automated vote counts are optional, I'm good. A way to add a queue of flavor-text blurbs for upcoming vote counts would be nice. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't use an automated vote count post feature.

Double-votes, non-votes (where you still want the player to show up in the list of votes but not increment the counter, and revenant-votes (where a dead player has a vote that is sent to the mod, not posted in the game thread) - the number of games that use roles and mechanics like this are low. I've used Thesp's counter for games with some of these mechanics, and manually adjusted each vote count before posting it.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I believe Mafia Universe has some auto bots that basically run whole games. I don't play on that site but was checking out the bot recently.

Even in their "player modded" games, they still have semi-auto bots, that can post a votecount on any player demand with just the player clicking the button in the top options. It also posts flips as well I think.

I thought it was p cool and would help in modding here if a similar thing was implemented.

[Psyche]

http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/thr ... ost1168514

pretty neat

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Yeah something like that. P cool bot with a lot of use.

[Flubbernugget]

Is this the wrong thread to make coughing noises about auto sign ups

Psyche iirc you can already send out automated pm's and forum posts

[Psyche]

auto sign ups?
i spose that would be easier than votecounts

[Flubbernugget]

I remember that being highly controversial at one point for labor reasons but I could have literally just made that up right now too

[Psyche]

It'd be hard to change the site design to support automated sign-ups, I think, but a bot account could theoretically achieve desired outcomes without changing site layout.

[fferyllt]

I thought Chamber had already done a lot of work on auto signups? I'm not sure what was needed to push the enhancement over the line.

[Flubbernugget]

It'd be hard to change the site design to support automated sign-ups, I think, but a bot account could theoretically achieve desired outcomes without changing site layout.

That makes sense

[wgeurts]

If we could just nick everything MU has done this site would be heaven.

[Psyche]

i got a bit lazy but i finally feel like i can do work again

anyway, what does everything think of humansequencer's idea for designing the bot?
is there anyone reading who

wouldn't

use a bot designed his way but would use it if it were designed some other way?

[Psyche]

main issues with HS's idea that moderators be offered an application that automates their modding accounts:
- if many mods use it, it *could* create an excessive server load (for example, you'll have many more accounts repeatedly refreshing pages to see if a pagetop should happen) depending on what "many" means here)
- application maybe wouldn't work if the mod, say, turned off their computer?

these issues might not even matter but suppose we take them seriously;
both might be resolved by having the app just communicate with a central server (where just one account is refreshing ms.net), but if the server actually solved the described problems at some level it would involve people sending me their passwords in a weird way - i don't want that kind of issue or responsibility

oh and this is just a side note but if people are communicating with a central server to get things done why would i make it a downloadable application when i could just make it something people can interact with through a web app

but whatever i should ignore all these issues and just get to work right yes

[BBmolla]

Anything is better than nothing. As a person who doesn't mod because I don't like upkeeping the game and I suck when I try to whatever you make is better than what we have now.

On a semi-related note, how difficult would it be to program a basic program (like it's own .exe or whatever) that resolves night actions automatically? Like I as the mod input the night actions to the program and it automatically outputs what happens. I'm thinking like enormous role madness games where there's so many actions it's hard to keep track of them all.

I've mod errored at least twice because I always overlook shit. Just by my basic coding knowledge I assume it wouldn't be immensely difficult, but I could be wrong.

[Psyche]

In some sense it's easy. Reliably and quickly resolving a large set of formal logic operations is what computers were invented for.
Due to the huge variety in roles, though, it might be tedious, requiring a unique line of code for every role that could ever happen.
But tedious is better than challenging imo.

[Gamma Emerald]

This sounds like the thing they have on Mafia Universe
Might wanna check that for ideas

[chamber]

I thought Chamber had already done a lot of work on auto signups? I'm not sure what was needed to push the enhancement over the line.

I had them basically done in one form but then got into a disagreement with the mods about some final details. I think a newer group of people lead primarily by ConorCJ has taken a different approach from what me/kison/kunkstar had done, but that his has no UI at all, just the backend processing done. But I do think it's making progress slowly.

[xyzzy]

I wouldn't be a fan of anything that requires me to use specific formatting and would be more likely to use something that works with the system I already use, even if it requires some upfront work on my part. ideally, this would take the form of a block of text with syntax for indicating where and how certain automatically generated elements should appear, as well as functions for interpreting data (e.g., if only 1 player is voting for someone, write "1 player is voting for", and if more than one is, write "X players are voting for"; or if a player is 1 vote below the current lynch threshold, append "[L-1]" to the end of the line). in addition, it would be important to have the ability to store a database of information, so that, for instance, you can have a list of flavor text entries to append to votecounts. it would be really nice (although probably difficult) to have the ability to automate roles that interact with the voting system in unusual ways. for instance, my most recent setup had a role that can't ever unvote, and automatically self votes if the player 1)has made a post during the current day and 2)has not yet voted for anyone. finally, it would be really nice if this system could be set up to track multiple types of votes; again, my most recent game featured this, as it used heal tags in addition to vote tags.