"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
In post 97, callforjudgement wrote:I think we'd greatly benefit from deciding whether a "newbie game" is a game full of newbies, a game suitable for newbies, or a game which has the purpose of training newbies.
The definition we use somewhat controls what constraints we have to work under when deciding what forms our newbie games should take. (For example, a game which has 1 newbie and 8 experienced players could fit the second definition excellently and the third partially, but would not fit the first at all.)
Generally I would say 2 and 3, but I would like to introduce a 4th - Introducing new players(whether experienced or not) to the site meta
What is we just merged the Open queue and the newbie queue?
The opens already have to be reviewed and are pretty strict about new setups?
Just use the Open games format and had IC's for the games?
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
Many of the open setups are one-offs with non-normal night action resolutions and roles with non-normal twists and opportunities for gamebreaking strategies (which are not much of a thing in the other queues). The queues could maybe be merged, but many open setups are anything but newbie-friendly.
Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
Maybe make newbies a subset of opens, like ones that are fairly simple? We could funnel the Open queue's obsession with friends and enemies into that I guess (yeah I have contempt for the common reoccurrences of certain setups).
<Embrace The Void>
“A flipped coin doesn't always land heads or tails. Sometimes it may never land at all...”
In post 105, fferyllt wrote:Many of the open setups are one-offs with non-normal night action resolutions and roles with non-normal twists and opportunities for gamebreaking strategies (which are not much of a thing in the other queues). The queues could maybe be merged, but many open setups are anything but newbie-friendly.
My first non-newbie was an open and it was definitely not newbie friendly fmpov. It wasn't the setup that was the problem, though, but rather the type of players and level I was expected to play at I think? I still hesitate to sign up for opens from that one bad experience.
And as a player that had never touched mafia in any form before playing here, the newbie queue was kind of a godsend for me.
That was back when mina I think was running the queue and the turnover was a lot slower than it is now if memory serves. Or at least it feels like it.
"Jae defends his townreads like a fanatic" - Charloux
"On the issue of myself they go back and forth between overpowering paranoia and absolute certainty I'm town... it's kind of exhausting." - Nahdia
In post 22, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Maybe word has spread around the Internet that site meta has gone down the drain? I know a lot of newbies aren't a fan of 2 week deadlines so when you couple that with potentially being introduced to current site meta through SEs and even ICs in your first game, it's very very hard to want to continue playing on this site.
In post 105, fferyllt wrote:Many of the open setups are one-offs with non-normal night action resolutions and roles with non-normal twists and opportunities for gamebreaking strategies (which are not much of a thing in the other queues). The queues could maybe be merged, but many open setups are anything but newbie-friendly.
My first non-newbie was an open and it was definitely not newbie friendly fmpov. It wasn't the setup that was the problem, though, but rather the type of players and level I was expected to play at I think? I still hesitate to sign up for opens from that one bad experience.
And as a player that had never touched mafia in any form before playing here, the newbie queue was kind of a godsend for me.
That was back when mina I think was running the queue and the turnover was a lot slower than it is now if memory serves. Or at least it feels like it.
Now that I think about it most of my worst experiences in mafia games have generally been in open games.
In post 105, fferyllt wrote:Many of the open setups are one-offs with non-normal night action resolutions and roles with non-normal twists and opportunities for gamebreaking strategies (which are not much of a thing in the other queues). The queues could maybe be merged, but many open setups are anything but newbie-friendly.
My first non-newbie was an open and it was definitely not newbie friendly fmpov. It wasn't the setup that was the problem, though, but rather the type of players and level I was expected to play at I think? I still hesitate to sign up for opens from that one bad experience.
And as a player that had never touched mafia in any form before playing here, the newbie queue was kind of a godsend for me.
That was back when mina I think was running the queue and the turnover was a lot slower than it is now if memory serves. Or at least it feels like it.
Now that I think about it most of my worst experiences in mafia games have generally been in open games.
ditto. i didn't enjoy pretty much any games I've played in the open queue, whether it's because of the players or the setups idk.
though, when I was new, I did a micro/normal/newbie at the same time. the newbie was horrible, probably due to shitty ics, micro was eh, the normal game is where the players really made me feel included in the site and it was why i stayed (winning and having good reads helped). i would be for dissolving the newbie queue.
In post 18, Plotinus wrote:In the past 86 days, the open queue has fired 5 times, at a rate of once every 17 days.
In the past 56 days, 5 large theme games have entered sign ups, at a rate of once every 11 days
In the past 41 days, the micro queue has fired 5 times, at a rate of once every 8 days.
In the past 33 days, the mini theme queue has fired 5 times, at a rate of once every 7 days.
In the past 31 days, the normal queue has fired 5 times, at a rate of once every 6 days.
In the past 29 days, the newbie queue has fired 5 times, at a rate of once every 6 days.
The newbie queue is the most active queue.
I would like to remind you that the Open Queue number is
a statistical anomaly
. The reason why the number is so slow is because in that time frame, both Buchephalous Bob and me run a setup that requires a big player list but not favorable. With no alternative, the sign-up slows down. To make things worse, when Buchephalous Bob's setup did not get sign-ups, he replaced it with another setup who also did not get sign-ups.
This condition is rare so it's not a good representation of the Open Queue but skews the number to be artificially slower.
"The debate on whether short multi postings or a long wall of post is good or not is like a debate on gun control--we would never understand each other and we have to make peace with it." -Realeo
In the 85 days before Bob's game went into signups the open queue fired 6 times, for a rate of about once every 14 days.
Seems plenty representative to me. That also includes a lovers game, which was 6 players, so if anything that number is more frequent than it would be with a full player list as the 6th filled game.
AKA just because you like open games doesnt mean they fire frequently, no matter how large and passive aggressive you make your font.
Ah, I'm sorry. I would try not to try to correct things next time.
"The debate on whether short multi postings or a long wall of post is good or not is like a debate on gun control--we would never understand each other and we have to make peace with it." -Realeo
Uh ok. I will accept that text does not convey emotion perfectly.
"The debate on whether short multi postings or a long wall of post is good or not is like a debate on gun control--we would never understand each other and we have to make peace with it." -Realeo
I guess I should say - I would not have joined the site without the newbie queue.
The newbie queue, with games specially for and full of newbies and people who were choosing to play with newbies, was basically the thing that turned it from "hey this looks kind of fun but pretty intimidating so nah" to "maybe I should just give it a try and see if I like it". If I had instead been directed to the normal or open queue, I'd have just moved on.
I'm generally a scaredy-cat though and also had no experience with forum mafia or forums in general, so I may not be representative.
You're under no obligation to be the same person you were 5 minutes ago.
Thats interesting anecdotal evidence. I had not considered the possibility that newbies would come here specifically because of newbie queues that made them less nervous about playing.
Personally as someone who has social anxiety... I probably wouldn't have tried mafia despite being drawn to it if a queue didn't exist that made me feel comfortable signing up. A newbie queue while not meaning much to most can mean a lot to a pure newbie who is intimidated by the lot.
I studied the wiki with a huge focus on mastina's articles. I read a newbie game in its entirety...And I still was full of nerves when I entered my first game.
I think for people who have played the game before it's easy to discount how much it means to have a separate queue for "hey if you're new come here for a few games". It meant a lot to me personally. I actually felt like I didn't have enough time there being allowed to feel it out with the 2 game rule and ended up in an open where I flailed with no idea what was happening with players I was starstruck by accusing me of being an alt.
The newbie queue is something I wish I was allowed more time with as a newbie, not less. The site as a whole was intimidating and I felt like I was kicked out of where I belonged too quickly.
I wouldn't have signed up for a game if not for the newbie queue. Let alone continued to play after that first open.
"Jae defends his townreads like a fanatic" - Charloux
"On the issue of myself they go back and forth between overpowering paranoia and absolute certainty I'm town... it's kind of exhausting." - Nahdia
In post 118, JaeReed wrote:Personally as someone who has social anxiety... I probably wouldn't have tried mafia despite being drawn to it if a queue didn't exist that made me feel comfortable signing up. A newbie queue while not meaning much to most can mean a lot to a pure newbie who is intimidated by the lot.
I studied the wiki with a huge focus on mastina's articles. I read a newbie game in its entirety...And I still was full of nerves when I entered my first game.
I think for people who have played the game before it's easy to discount how much it means to have a separate queue for "hey if you're new come here for a few games". It meant a lot to me personally. I actually felt like I didn't have enough time there being allowed to feel it out with the 2 game rule and ended up in an open where I flailed with no idea what was happening with players I was starstruck by accusing me of being an alt.
The newbie queue is something I wish I was allowed more time with as a newbie, not less. The site as a whole was intimidating and I felt like I was kicked out of where I belonged too quickly.
I wouldn't have signed up for a game if not for the newbie queue. Let alone continued to play after that first open.
JaeReed just shared my experience with the site, except that I joined a fucking insane Normal instead of an Open.
Also: I *like* newbie games. It is very likely that once I qualify for SE (my next game, I think), newbie games will be the only ones I ever play.
Bipolar • ADHD • Call me Sunny • GTKAS
May your past be the sound of your feet upon the ground - carry on.
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
In post 121, RadiantCowbells wrote:Yeah getting rid of the newbie queue is just about the worst idea na.
yeh
Newbie games not filling fast enough isn't the problem, it's a symptom. Problem is we aren't attracting people at a fast enough rate. It's something people were working (getting us to show up on page 1 of Google searches and stuff) on but I dunno what happened with that.
