Effective Wolf Hunting

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Effective Wolf Hunting

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:04 am

Post by Virtuoso »

Copied and shared by permission from Klopp and Thingyman on MafiaUniverse.

Mafia has always been a game of discussion. How else are you going to catch the bad guys, right? You need to first talk some, then compare the player's game to his previous ones (the so-called meta) and voila! You've got your wolf on a silver platter. But is it always that easy? What if you're playing someone for the first time? Is discussion alone going to be enough to effectively hunt down all the wolves? I will do my best to answers these and other questions in this article.

First we're going to touch on fundamentals - getting to know your opponent and making your reads logical and therefore more solid. Then we're going to discuss more advanced ideas of wolf hunting so no matter if you're a complete newbie or a very strong, experienced player you should still be able to find this article somewhat interesting and instructive.

THE BASICS
:

Level of the game, assessment of players' potential
When playing mafia, you are going to encounter a wide spectrum of players. A quick assessment of their current level and potential is vital to making an effective read on them.

First thing to know is that you can't assess everyone in the same way. So how to evaluate the potential of a player you haven't played before? Best way is to observe their in-thread charisma. If I see a cunning, clever player with a cutting sense of humour, I'm going to be more careful when making a read on that person. And that's what you should always do before going any further because knowing who you're up against is key to making correct decisions later. I divided players you might encounter in mafia into three categories for simplification:

Level 1: Rookie player, doesn't grasp the concept of vanilla setups, relies heavily on power roles.
This kind of player is fairly easy to read because it basically all comes down to volume and spotting healthy aggression. If a player of this caliber is giving polarizing reads and is voting people (even for what might seem like silly reasons!) with confidence, he is in almost all cases a villager! It doesn't matter if his reads are right or wrong (they are most probably wrong as he doesn't have the experience and knowledge to attack players for the right reasons so for him it usually comes down to luck).

A rookie mafia player will in most cases assume the role of a quiet, reasonable individual with very toned-down reads and pushes. You can often spot a wolf player like him when he's constantly making double-edged sword statements like "Action X might indicate player Y is a wolf but on the other hand it might also mean he's a misguided villager".
Look for players who shy away from taking strong stances in discussion and always remember there is a much higher chance of high volume players being villagers, especially at this level.

Level 2: Solid player, played some vanilla games, knows the basics of wolf hunting

This player has to be evaluated based on couple of factors. In my opinion, you still shouldn't focus on the accuracy of his reads. What's more important is the manner in which the player pushes his wolf reads. You will usually come across two types of wolves at this level:

First one is an enhanced version of the level 1 player - a calm player avoiding responsibility. However he tries to improve his game by pushing one or two players all game because he feels the need to attack someone to look like he's actually here to wolf hunt.
If you spot a player with a very narrow look at the game, be wary of him.

Second one is an aggressor - wolves have difficulty faking emotions so they often use the trick of being very aggressive in their pushes, thereby focusing on one emotion. They can tunnel the hell out of a single player and level villagers into thinking that a wolf wouldn't play so recklessly.
Although tunneling itself is NOT a wolfy trait, always be careful of players who are overly aggressive in their pushes because it might be part of a wolfy agenda.

Small tip: If there's a player in your game who doesn't solve and doesn't care to look good, he might just be a slanking villager. Always remember wolves are much more self-aware and feel an internal pressure to do something, anything! It's much less likely for a wolf to be playing the "I don't give a damn about this game" card.

Level 3: Elite player, played lots of games, has lots of experience
An elite player will have great tone and will be strong at fabricating reads. What to do in a situation like this when you have no meta? Well, one answer would be find enough villagers and just keep this player in your PoE. But we're here to look for wolves! And the highest chance for strong wolves to make mistakes is:

During the opening pages
.
During EoDs when a wolf has to push the mafia agenda and risk his position (More on these first two points in MORE ADVANCED CONCEPTS).
By constantly making incorrect reads. The moment you gain the ability of finding villagers it will be easier for you to assess an elite player. If he insists on ignoring signs of towniness of players he's pushing, it should set off alarm bells. But remember, even the best players get reads wrong sometimes, especially early game. That's why it's important to stay reasonable and resist panicking to be a successful wolf hunter.

MORE ADVANCED CONCEPTS

Macro Reads vs Micro Reads
Both types of reads are useful if applied correctly. Macro reading is looking at the player's overall game and judging his alignment based on that. That's probably the most popular tool in my and many other players' wolf hunting arsenal. Usually I read players villagery or wolfy after reading their ISO and making a judgment call based on tone and quality of their posts.

There are also micro reads. The idea is that you see that player X wrote a very villagery or a very wolfy post and based on just that you guess their alignment. These reads are sometimes treated too seriously and overshadow the macro reads, which I believe, in general, they shouldn't.

If an overall villagery looking player writes a wolfy post, does that make them a wolf? I don't believe so. VIllagers are prone to writing silly things and it happens quite often because they don't know other players' alignment. They have plenty of thoughts running through their heads and some of those thoughts are bound to be wrong, weird and/or silly. It all comes down to a question: Do villagers write wolfy posts? My answer is yes, they do. That's why I would advise thinking twice before coming to the conclusion that wolfy behaviour equals a wolf.

However if a null-ish player writes a very villagery post, I believe there is a good reason to call that person a villager. Why? Because it's not easy for a wolf to write a truly villagery post. Actually, it's very difficult if not almost impossible. There are just some thought processes you won't be able to fabricate as a wolf. That's why micro reads come in handy when you're simply not sure about a person and one or two posts of his let you take that leap of faith and clear them.

I have had some classic confrontations of micro-macro reads on Mafia Universe.

In the game Sharing is Caring a player called Sorian was playing a very villagery game. However, on d1 EOD he made a wrong judgement call and was hard defending wolf!Mantichora. I had to make a decision which read to trust. In that game I trusted my macro read and was right to do so.
Another time, in the Wildcard Game of Season 3 I was reading Beck as a villager. After he did everything he could to stop people from lynching wolf!Royal Ape on d1 EOD I again had to decide. I once again went with my macro read and sticked to thinking that Beck is a villager. That time I was wrong. Later thinking about it I came to the conclusion I underestimated Beck's potential and that had lead me to believe he wouldn't be able to pull off such a gutsy play.

Look at the HOW, not the WHAT
Villagers are wrong all the time. Yes, it's true. Go back to your finished games and note how many times you voted for a villager or villa read a wolf. That's why, if you ever want to be an effective wolf hunter, you have to let go of the thought that being wrong makes people wolfy. It's completely normal for villagers to be wrong. Always look at HOW something is done, not WHAT is done. If a player pushed a mislynch or did something that hurt the town, ask yourself these questions:

1. Was there progression and did it make sense?

If there isn't any progression, my first instinct would actually be to say the player you're suspecting is... a villager. Acting in a way that makes no sense is usually not a wolf trait. I repeat, wolves are much more self-aware than villagers, they always think about their next move and mostly try to avoid looking suspicious. These kind of plays are mainly in range of elite mafia players who are ready to play the leveling game with townies.

Example: Player X starts attacking player Y completely out of nowhere. Best way to deal with this is to just wait and see where the player is going with his line of thought. Try not to interrupt his efforts too soon. Also don't do the defending for players you consider to be villagery before it's actually necessary. You might learn much more by just letting things unfold without your intervention.

2. Was there a wolf motivation behind the action?

This is vital. If there wasn't any motivation, the player is probably not a wolf. Again, wolves are self-aware. The most important objective for a wolf is to stay alive. Therefore in approximately 95% of the cases he won't do the crazy thing simply because of the fear of getting caught.

3. Does the player's overall game look villagery and is it probable he/she is just a villager who made a mistake?

This is important to keep in mind. Too often I see a situation where a fairly villagery player is a suspect because, lets say, he made a terribly looking play at eod. Taken out of context, it made him a wolf. But if our macro read on that player is that he's a villager, I would be inclined to defend him. Villagers do stupid things because of paranoia, doubt, wrong judgement, frustration etc. Lynching them for these mistakes without taking our macro read into account is usually a bad idea.

Example: Early game, player X who hasn't been suspected and has had a solid position within the town block is not around during EoD. Yet in the last 20 seconds of the day phase he suddenly appears and puts down a vote that lynches a villager.

It looks terrible at first glance but you should always ask yourself: Would a wolf do such a thing? Usually the answer is no. It's too early in the game and a play like this focuses all the attention on that player. In this situation I'm inclined to say that player's X action is "too wolfy to be wolf". Especially if he has been fairly villagery 'till that point.

Posting Under Pressure & The Power of Reaction Tests
This is personally my favourite and most enjoyable way of wolf hunting (though I'll admit it's not the fastest or most effective).

After playing mafia for some time I came to the conclusion that chaos is good for the village.

In my opinion there is nothing else wolves would like to do more the whole game than to be involved in a long, peaceful discussion with other players. This is the easiest way for them to hide simply because any competent wolf is going to be able to fabricate solid reads, answer questions and ask some good ones himself. What causes good wolves to make mistakes is pressure and emotions. There is very little emotion in a debate that lasts for 20 hours.

I'll use my only wolf game on MU as an example of what I mean: I entered the thread a few pages in and started in a very unimpressive way. Players didn't respond well to my opening and I was suspected. 2-3 players voted me and... that was it. They didn't follow it up with anything. I was free to just post reads and interact and after some time I managed to post myself out of that bad position. I believe village made a mistake of not putting enough pressure on me. They didn't make me suffer enough for my bad opening and let me off the hook too easily. If enough pressure was applied on me, it would've probably ended my participation in that game very quickly.

A very effective way of learning someone's alignment is placing a player in a position they weren't expecting to be in and which they were not ready for. Wolves can crumble under pressure and that mostly happens during two stages of the game, openings and EODs.

Opening

Wolf mindset: "I have to start strong, I need to start in a funny, witty way to get some early town reads". Usually it's just good enough to start with a default "hi". But the awareness of being a wolf tends to get to the player and force him to make some mistakes when he opens.

Common behaviours include (with a few examples from Mafia Universe games in which I played/which I spectated):

Cliffs:
Know your opponent. Don't make the mistake of assuming too quickly that a player wouldn't be capable of doing something as a wolf.
Look at the big picture. Don't read too much into a person's specific wolfy posts if they contradict their general in-thread appearance.
Make sure you can see a wolf motivation behind a player's given action before wolf reading them for it.
Study the opening pages and EODs very carefully, that's often where the wolves show their true face.
Don't be afraid to mix things up and push some buttons. Wolves feel most uncomfortable in scenarios they don't expect to be in.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:20 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

A rookie mafia player will in most cases assume the role of a quiet, reasonable individual with very toned-down reads and pushes. You can often spot a wolf player like him when he's constantly making double-edged sword statements like "Action X might indicate player Y is a wolf but on the other hand it might also mean he's a misguided villager".
Look for players who shy away from taking strong stances in discussion and always remember there is a much higher chance of high volume players being villagers, especially at this level.
This might be a meta dependent thing, but I don't know that its true on mafiascum.

I think a lot of our rookie players tend to post with volume and resist giving reads regardless of alignment.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:22 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

One of the things thats most frustrating to me about the way mafia is currently played on this site is that there seems to be a meta expectation that people can have not firm stances. That it's ok to go into day 2 having expressed no strong convictions about anyone, or to tunnel super hard on one person for little to no reason.

When I read games I see these behaviors from players of both alignments and many different "levels" to use the terminology of the paper.
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:23 am

Post by Lil Uzi Vert »

Cringe.

Disagree with chaos is good for town though.
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:59 am

Post by RadiantCowbells »

Agree with the majority of this, only a few things that I think are wrong
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:06 am

Post by chamber »

I think some of the wrong things are very wrong though.
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:28 am

Post by Virtuoso »

The one thing I strongly disagree with is that chaos is good for town. Chaos is almost never good for town (at least on this site's meta) as it generally leads to a rapid collapse of the town
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:31 am

Post by RadiantCowbells »

Chaos is great for town and always has been.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:45 am

Post by Creature »

If scum have to express themselves more, it's good for town.
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:45 am

Post by Plotinus »

Some chaos is good for town. There is such thing as too much of a good thing, though.

I guess it depends on the definition of chaos. 50 pages in 24 hours is chaos and bad for town. everything being quiet and orderly and 100% by the book and lynch whoever the most players think is scummy is unchaotic and bad for town.
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:04 pm

Post by Agent Sparkles »

Level 1: Rookie player, doesn't grasp the concept of vanilla setups, relies heavily on power roles.
This kind of player is fairly easy to read because it basically all comes down to volume and spotting healthy aggression. If a player of this caliber is giving polarizing reads and is voting people (even for what might seem like silly reasons!) with confidence, he is in almost all cases a villager!
IMO this is a pretty naive and one-dimensional stance to take toward newbies. It kind of contradicts the later point of looking at the HOW and not the WHAT, because you're looking at the most surface-level aspects of their play (which most newbscum are capable of faking) instead of taking their pushes in context and looking for the town mindset behind them.
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:46 pm

Post by skirt skirt »

though, it is absolutely true that reading people with different experience requires different tells.
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:38 pm

Post by Alisae »

"Wolf"
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:06 am

Post by Agent Sparkles »

In [url=/viewtopic.php?p=9617080#p9617080]post 12[/url], Alisae wrote:"Wolf"
lol
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:07 am

Post by Agent Sparkles »

Also the entire mindset of "too scummy to be scum" is just bleh and doesn't work
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:16 am

Post by Raskolnikov »

chao s
IMO any half competent mafia team will win by default in a "perfectly standard" game where there's no surprises, usually you need something to throw a few people off to get those deeper reads on town and to give scum a chance to slip up. But if there's too much chaos and town starts doing things like forgetting pr information and overlooking confirmed guilties that's obviously not worth it.
In post 12, Alisae wrote:"Wolf"
Tfw you're wolf hunting for a whole game and find out there was only mafia all along
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:32 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 14, Agent Sparkles wrote:Also the entire mindset of "too scummy to be scum" is just bleh and doesn't work
It depends on how you define "scummy". For most people, "scummy" and "bad" are the same thing, and in general they really shouldn't be.
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:30 pm

Post by acidphoenix »

In post 16, mhsmith0 wrote:
In post 14, Agent Sparkles wrote:Also the entire mindset of "too scummy to be scum" is just bleh and doesn't work
It depends on how you define "scummy". For most people, "scummy" and "bad" are the same thing, and in general they really shouldn't be.
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:44 am

Post by Ranmaru »

I like the Macro vs Micro approach. I should always remember that when considering a read on a player.
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:57 am

Post by Alisae »

Here's a better method of scumhunting.
Step 1. Do whatever
Step 2. Look who tries to justify shit or has unnatural reads
Step 3. Lynch them; they most likely flip scum
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