This thread is for people that feel their play style needs work, but they are not quite sure how to improve it or adjust it so it is more acceptable.
This is an opt in thread. Type "/in" to be included. Additionally, you may want to give a rundown of what you already know isn't working for you so you don't get advice for things that you already know about. You can also ask questions like "how do I do X better?"
/In
I realize I have weaknesses in my game. A lot of the time I post too much. Some of the time this is because I simply am not being understood by my fellow players so I have to go at length to explain myself in hope that if I do this I will be better understood. This goes for both my Town game and my Scum game, but its prolly more a problem for me as Town. This has been an ongoing problem for me ever since I started playing and continues today. So how do I make sure people understand me so I don't have to litter the thread with responses to people instead of being able to push my pov without people asking me every other post I make what I mean? This might require some meta on me so if you do have meta on me and have noticed this, if you have any idea how I can communicate more effectively I would surely love to hear it.
[Edit] I should mention that this doesn't really have anything specifically to do with any particular game(s) I am in currently.
[Edit 2]I think it might be good to introduce a few rules.
There can only be three active "/ins" at a time. Otherwise it gets overloaded with a bunch of "/ins" and few are getting the advice they need.
You should say at least something besides "/in" The more info you give, the better then advice you will get, ideally.
An "/In" remains on the board until they feel satisfied with the advice they have received, within reason.
"/Ins" can be opted for more than once. Ideally, you would want to wait until you have applied the advice given and it has been observed from other players.
Last edited by LicketyQuickety on Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.
I think it might be good to introduce a few rules.
There can only be three active "/ins" at a time. Otherwise it gets overloaded with a bunch of "/ins" and few are getting the advice they need.
You should say at least something besides "/in" The more info you give, the better then advice you will get, ideally.
An "/In" remains on the board until they feel satisfied with the advice they have received, within reason.
"/Ins" can be opted for more than once. Ideally, you would want to wait until you have applied the advice given and it has been observed from other players.
I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.
Some people need to "misunderstand" you when you're town. Do the people who misunderstand you when you're town end up flipping scum?
Flip side, if you're making a case on X and people don't seem to get it, what does X usually flip? If X is town more often than statistics would suggest then maybe your case is just bad.
If X is scum when people don't seem to get it, then the area of focus is bridging the gap between what you see and what they see. Ask what they see differently instead of trying to argue that you're right?
My issue is a different one, I try to be honest as town when I don't have a clue who the scum are, and that honesty almost always leads to scumreads on me. Join me in always being honest when town so we can change this part of the site meta, because making stuff up as town is one of the reasons scum escape.
Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord
In post 6, davesaz wrote:Some people need to "misunderstand" you when you're town. Do the people who misunderstand you when you're town end up flipping scum?
Flip side, if you're making a case on X and people don't seem to get it, what does X usually flip? If X is town more often than statistics would suggest then maybe your case is just bad.
If X is scum when people don't seem to get it, then the area of focus is bridging the gap between what you see and what they see. Ask what they see differently instead of trying to argue that you're right?
My issue is a different one, I try to be honest as town when I don't have a clue who the scum are, and that honesty almost always leads to scumreads on me. Join me in always being honest when town so we can change this part of the site meta, because making stuff up as town is one of the reasons scum escape.
Thanks for the advice. It tends to be hit or miss regarding whether my case is on Scum or not. I've made quite a few tin foil cases in my day and sometimes they are right on the money and sometimes I am dead wrong. What makes you think a Scum hunter needs to be right >50% of the time? A typical game is 10:3. What am I missing?
I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.
These are the quiries regarding my play, and good play in general:
1) When is the best time to run a gambit? Should I treat gambit differently as one alignment then another?
-I've noticed that I'm much less inclined to run a gambit as scum then town. Part of it is definitely a worry that my teammates could be hurt badly if the gambit blows up in my face, like my partherners wouldn't know how to react to it in a town way, and incriminate themselves. But because of this I've missed out on some sweet oppertunies to mess with town. Example of a scum game where I could have used a gambiat. I realized that Frogger was a lone mazonizer with a guilty on me (Other mason died last night), and he hadn't claimed his guilty yet, but the way he was needling me I thought he was. In that situation I was going to claim a guilty on the masoneizer before he had a chance to call me out, but chickened out of fear of somehow screwing it up, and/or putting buddies in an unpleasant situation.
Ultimately I think I want to learn more about when gambiating is a good idea as scum.
2)How do I keep up with fast paced games as a slow reader, and type? Is there a good short hand for note taking that ya'll like to use? Should I just avoid fast games altogether?
-Pretty cut and dry. I'm not very a -time efficient- mafia player, and would like to be more efficient.
3) How can I sell an intuitive read that I'm really confidant in, but can't back up with tangible things in the game?
-I've onticed that the reads I have when I first sub into a game I'm following are better then the reads I develop in a more through catch up posts. Its really annoying because I don't have a lot of reasons for why things are the why they are, so in an attempt to add logic to my reads I actually get farther from the truth. I can't play like Albert Rampage who can hook onto a few points when getting an accurate read, I have a compulsion to go more indepth and think everything through. :/
4) If I recognize the need for a town leader how can I fill that role long term?
- I specify long term because I'm a supportive, non-combative player by nature. So trying to lead discussion, and draw people into my preferred lynch quickly becomes an tiring trial for me. I'd like to be able to have the stamina to lead desscuion for the duration of the whole game if need be.
5) When do I gamble on WIFOM-y scum hunting tools? If ever?
- Classic examples that comes to mind are NKA, VCA, and set-up speculation. I would like to better know how to utilize these tactics, but first I want to know what situations make tactics like these MOST optimal. Like I know that set up spec works best in predictable set-ups, and that VCA works best with scum flips, but what is there beyond this? It seems like circumstances where these tools work best could be narrowed down even more.
In post 10, Grendel wrote:I recognize its a lot but those are all questions that have been on my mind for MONTHS now. If I could get answers for anything I'd be a happy dude.
1. I get lynched for being scummy.....how do I not be scummy
2. If I am scummy....how do I be a good scum without being scummy
Because I seem to always be scummy. No matter my tole
Do you notice any common threaded reasons that you get scum read?
Like do you get accused for similar things in each game you play in?
they seem to change from game to game. i have fixed and adapted certain play styles i use, but always bump into another flaw in my natural play style....
In post 9, Grendel wrote:1) When is the best time to run a gambit? Should I treat gambit differently as one alignment then another?
It would be more right to never gambit as town than to gambit as much as you would if I told you to do it rarely. As such you shouldn't be emulating town gambits as scum either. You can always discuss a scum gambit (like counter claiming each other or etc) before doing it. I'd suggest only gambling as scum when you are already losing badly though.
In post 9, Grendel wrote:2)How do I keep up with fast paced games as a slow reader, and type? Is there a good short hand for note taking that ya'll like to use? Should I just avoid fast games altogether?
Join slower games. (really I don't have a good answer for this one, the pace of some games has kept me from playing too).
In post 9, Grendel wrote:3) How can I sell an intuitive read that I'm really confidant in, but can't back up with tangible things in the game?
Question whether you should actually be confidant in it given your inability to back it up even to yourself. Intuition is a good starting point, but thats all.
In post 9, Grendel wrote:4) If I recognize the need for a town leader how can I fill that role long term?
Should you be filling that role? I think is the first question you should actually be asking. But then also, should you be filling it long term is the second. Actually getting into it is often a lot of strong arming with spam and force of personality. But know when to take a backseat. I think the game should rarely have one person leading it throughout.
In post 9, Grendel wrote:5) When do I gamble on WIFOM-y scum hunting tools? If ever?
I don't even know what you mean by a wifomy scumhunting tool?
How do you make good cases? I sometimes have good reads, but my cases are often discounted or ridiculed (for good reason in hindsight) but I am bad at making my thoughts cohesive and organized. I just go post by post
LQ: I empathize with the frustration of not being understood. Having played a game with you, and reconsidered my own play style in the time I took off site, I wonder if it has something to do with trying to explain something so explicitly that we actually end up confusing the matter with too many words?
Bipolar • ADHD • Call me Sunny • GTKAS
May your past be the sound of your feet upon the ground - carry on.
In post 14, Sunlit Diamond wrote:LQ: I empathize with the frustration of not being understood. Having played a game with you, and reconsidered my own play style in the time I took off site, I wonder if it has something to do with trying to explain something so explicitly that we actually end up confusing the matter with too many words?
I reread that game. I thinks its pretty messed up I was lynched D1 if I am being honest.
I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.
In post 9, Grendel wrote:3) How can I sell an intuitive read that I'm really confidant in, but can't back up with tangible things in the game?
Try to pinpoint the moment when your suspicion is formed, and consciously dissect the circumstances surrounding it.
Alternatively, just say that "I don't have any tangible reason for it, but my intuition says that XY is scum." It won't "sell" the read, but it will get responses that may give you a better sense of where you stand.
In post 14, Sunlit Diamond wrote:LQ: I empathize with the frustration of not being understood. Having played a game with you, and reconsidered my own play style in the time I took off site, I wonder if it has something to do with trying to explain something so explicitly that we actually end up confusing the matter with too many words?
I reread that game. I thinks its pretty messed up I was lynched D1 if I am being honest.
That entire game was a mess. I think your lynch was inevitable, but not through any fault of yours.
Bipolar • ADHD • Call me Sunny • GTKAS
May your past be the sound of your feet upon the ground - carry on.
In post 14, Sunlit Diamond wrote:LQ: I empathize with the frustration of not being understood. Having played a game with you, and reconsidered my own play style in the time I took off site, I wonder if it has something to do with trying to explain something so explicitly that we actually end up confusing the matter with too many words?
I reread that game. I thinks its pretty messed up I was lynched D1 if I am being honest.
That entire game was a mess. I think your lynch was inevitable, but not through any fault of yours.
Yeah, Its too bad because I felt my game was on point there.
I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
1. I get lynched for being scummy.....how do I not be scummy
2.
If I am scummy....how do I be a good scum without being scummy
Because I seem to always be scummy. No matter my tole
Um two things I see happen with your slot.
Some other players (bad ones) see you not know things. Such as which fake claims are just too outrageous, and which ones are too plausible. So then they judge your over or under reaction to those as bad, call it scum and are good to go.
I would like to tell you all the people that do that are scum and they should be. But apparently some people with town pms go "black sheep" hunting. AKA: People who are different can get cut out of the flock and cast in the role of other. (read the book lord of the flies and the death of piggy for social example). I hear you've been of school age recently. If you look around at your memories of school, I suspect you may see the same patterns unfold IRL. In groups, out groups, and who gets targetted. Be careful how hard you look at IRL like that it may make you sad or mad. Growing up is hard enough without prematurely becoming old and cynical like me.
So to fix that kind of "scummy" you will have to simply learn more of the local tribes (mafia scums) current cultural norms to getaway from that. BTW you also currently get you share of people watching your back and looking for scum in those who attack you. So there are swings and merry go rounds aspects to your current situation.
If you would like to be so town... scum cant lynch you at all. (don't worry I see town lynch players bleeding green all the time.)(so even if scum never believe they can get you mis-lynched, sometimes townies still will.)
AxleGreaser wrote:
Just so long as your getting to know people also involves, then working out which ones of them are acting on scummy motivations.
As you don't want to join any wagon (I presume yet) you need to work towards the goal of having whatever information you will need to be able to join a wagon with the intent to get that particular person lynched.
I am doing that right now with you... do I want to lynch you? I don't know yet. I need to know if I do X do you do Y or Z.
Those links go to specific posts, but the hole threads they link to are worth the read.
Towny Intent
Know what your towny intent is when you post.
If I am scummy....how do I be a good scum without being scummy
Um I am sorry your question contains a does not compute error. 7of9 rejects it (10 out of 10 times).
If your towny play is scummy... Your scum play needs to be JUST the same kind of scummy.
Know thyself padwan.
However please don't go that way (be scummy as all alignments), or I be sads. (oh Ok skip just reminded me its your life to do with as you please.)
Be aware that if you follow that advice (links above: how to have town intent), really well.
Then if you thought playing scum, when you play is naturally scummy, is hard. Wait until you try playing as scum with the strategic requirements of scum and also have to look as towny as those links could make you. (there are also various guides around that are good)
My best advice for playing scum. And if i just tell you a recipe, Then that cant work as other people then know what your recipe is. To play scum: I suggest first understand yourself as a human being and how you go about playing as town not just as in you can do it, but that you are also introspectively self aware of theoretically how you do it. And know why you do what you do as town.
Also while you are doing that if and when you understand yourself as a human being, if you find some bits are less than stellar... change them and improve your town game as a result. Then armed with your deeper understanding of that as scum fake as much of it as you
need
to. You don't have to fool all the people all the time.
GO back and read old games of your own once you have forgotten the details and see if town you can make a good case on scum you. (If you can fix it)
Basically work at it. Lots of work in my experience.
Last edited by AxleGreaser on Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
In post 11, UC Voyager wrote:they seem to change from game to game. i have fixed and adapted certain play styles i use, but always bump into another flaw in my natural play style....
If game was easy more people would be good at it, then it would be hard again.
LQ, I felt like a lot of your problem was that you got defensive and angry so fast.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
In post 11, UC Voyager wrote:they seem to change from game to game. i have fixed and adapted certain play styles i use, but always bump into another flaw in my natural play style....
If game was easy more people would be good at it, then it would be hard again.
LOL, WIFOM train, Chooo choooooooo.
I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.
