The Road to Rome

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The Road to Rome

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:48 pm

Post by Ectomancer »

The IC wiki page was written some time ago and opinions can drift over time in a site such as this. So I was curious. I just recently had a newbie game complete that was my first one back (and due to moving from Texas to Florida I got replaced, not important). I did not read the wiki for the IC upon my return (I read it 8-9 years ago), but played with this priority list. I'm wondering what yours is as an IC. And add other new priorities and let me rank it into mine! I'm certain there are things I forget about that I do or take into account while playing as IC.

1: Try to monitor the "fun" level and keep it as high as possible.
2: Get in as many teaching moments as I can beyond the technical details as I can. Those are the fluid dynamic situational moments that you can't illustrate properly until it arrives organically.
3: Fulfill my win condition.

I'm thinking that some IC's play with their priority list in a 3 2 1 order and technically that may be the correct one.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:59 pm

Post by Espeonage »

I have not been an IC but I have (not so) silently judged many an IC while an SE. So take my post with a grain of salt.

I feel my main peeve with ICs is when they try to push their own playstyle on to newbies, especially if it isn't universally seen well. So for example readlists, FoS, Meta (Especially bad in newbies when there is distracting meta discussions with IC and SE slots), asking for walls. All of those I consider to be harmful to town for various reasons or in various situations and not explaining the 'when to use certain things' or warning that some people don't like these approaches is poor form on the part of the IC.

I feel like your list is good through.

If I'm honest I think that another IC should be added to Newbie games in one of two roles. A) As a foil to bad teaching in a 'double marking' type scenario (I tend to try to do this when I SE). Or B) Do what I have seen on other sites for games (Playdip does this for example) where you have a consulting experienced player who is not in the game that acts as a focus to players. Just from a conceptual standpoint. Or even if they gave an explaination of concepts and provided links to the wiki.

The wiki could use some work as most of the theory stuff is outdated, but there are still some gems in there, which are hard for Newbies to find on their own. Like there's a big difference between a mastin guide and an umbrage guide, but a newbie isn't going to know that.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:06 pm

Post by Alisae »

I care about teaching the most
Winning doesn't mean anything if you don't learn from it and follow a breaking strategy because lolmatrix6
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:36 pm

Post by mastina »

I actually have talked about this before!

Basically, as I see it, the role of an IC is to essentially positively introduce newbies to the site, and give them that influence where newbies want to stick around. Since we are primarily a website dedicated to the game of mafia, this takes the form of keeping them invested in play and preparing them for future games.

Keep the newbies around, keep the newbies playing. Everything else secondary to those objective, though common additions would include being an example by play and lectures on mafia theory.

This isn't all I have to say on the subject, but it's a relatively succinct way of putting things. It might be a bit on the vaguer side--but that's because it's more of an overarching goal for ICs to strive for. The goal of an IC is to fulfill these objectives. All other things are secondary; what methods they use to obtain these things are whatever methods they find best suits the situation for them.
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:42 pm

Post by Alisae »

I guess I fail in that area as an IC lol
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:14 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 4, Alisae wrote:I guess I fail in that area as an IC lol
Newbies unfortunately have a high turnover rate and unfortunately, that's nearly-if-not-outright impossible for ICs to avoid. An IC isn't necessarily to blame if newbies lacked investment/flake.

Teaching them is a way of preparing those who DO stick around for their future games, and as long as you're doing that, you can't be THAT badly off, I'd wager.
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:15 pm

Post by Alisae »

All of the newbies in my game that I IC'd flaked
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:12 pm

Post by Mulch »

IC's are useless. If you want newbies to stick around, stop making 2 week deadlines, and stop making the newbie queue so slow.
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:35 pm

Post by Ellibereth »

I mean I think the target user of the site is people who generally prefer longer deadlines so if that's the the factor thats making people leave then it's probably fine.
Last edited by Ellibereth on Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:45 pm

Post by Katyusha »

In post 8, Ellibereth wrote:I mean I think the target user of the site is people who generally prefer longer deadlines so if that's the the factor that making people leave then it's probably fine.
^

2 week deadlines are basically why i play here
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:37 am

Post by Ectomancer »

In post 8, Ellibereth wrote:I mean I think the target user of the site is people who generally prefer longer deadlines so if that's the the factor thats making people leave then it's probably fine.
I was reading my rules from my wiki for when I modded a couple of games and my position on deadlines was not to have them. I only bring them out to use as a stick on a lazy non-posting town. Otherwise let the game run without an arbitrary restriction such as the number of seconds ticked past on a clock. To me, there are phases to the game that occur naturally and as players we all come to a consensus on when we path along from one and into the next. Days gone by or number of pages filled will never measure those phases as accurately as a good mod with their pulse on the game.

That is my philosophy on deadlines as a mechanic in general. I would much prefer to see them applied as above rather than ever as any sort of default already in place.
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:47 am

Post by Espeonage »

In post 10, Ectomancer wrote:
In post 8, Ellibereth wrote:I mean I think the target user of the site is people who generally prefer longer deadlines so if that's the the factor thats making people leave then it's probably fine.
I was reading my rules from my wiki for when I modded a couple of games and my position on deadlines was not to have them. I only bring them out to use as a stick on a lazy non-posting town. Otherwise let the game run without an arbitrary restriction such as the number of seconds ticked past on a clock. To me, there are phases to the game that occur naturally and as players we all come to a consensus on when we path along from one and into the next. Days gone by or number of pages filled will never measure those phases as accurately as a good mod with their pulse on the game.

That is my philosophy on deadlines as a mechanic in general. I would much prefer to see them applied as above rather than ever as any sort of default already in place.
This really shows your join date. But I do agree. I don't think it is a good idea for Newbie games though.
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:42 am

Post by Ellibereth »

I think many people here tend to procrastinate and having no deadlines makes that worse.
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:05 pm

Post by Ectomancer »

In post 12, Ellibereth wrote:I think many people here tend to procrastinate and having no deadlines makes that worse.
[06] You may request mod-prods, replacements, clarifications, and vote counts from me directly in the thread, but please precede such with a bolded Mod: So-and-so so that I will be able to answer you as promptly as possible.
I believe in a liberal application of the mod-prod-rod. While I will push back against a replacement request I will shower a game in prods whenever a bored player wants me to make it rain them.

But when I mod a game of mafia my win condition is to host a fun, active, and memorable game for everyone involved.

Sometimes I get the impression that others feel maybe they are providing the site a service and as such leave things more in the hands of the players. I totally get that too but those mods I might send a link to the definition of the word "facilitate".

Procrastination may be an undesirable aspect to a game but installing a deadline brings its own host of undesirable aspects. I prefer to default to a an active mod and install a deadline when the mod is either too busy to manage things or the mod decides the town deserves the punishment that a deadline brings.
I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.

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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:49 am

Post by Papa Zito »

My uh "priority list" is:

1. Play hard
2. Answer all questions
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:21 pm

Post by Zachrulez »

In post 14, Papa Zito wrote:My uh "priority list" is:

1. Play hard
2. Answer all questions
I endorse this approach.

I have a pretty hands off mentality as an IC. Answer questions if a player is lost. Though generally in the end as an IC you have a win condition and you need to play to it and that's the best way to explain yourself when the game eventually ends. If I'm scum and my wincon doesn't line up with town's that town should be willing to lynch me if necessary and I never want to be accused of using the air of being an IC to escape lynch.
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