I think "being resistant to Town getting set in its ways and challenging the status quo" and content are not mutually exclusive. Take a look at your own game. Why do you think you have the record that you do? Are you a great Scumhunter, do you have great reads, can you push a lynch, do you have charisma, do you get lynched a lot as either alignment? More precisely, do you feel you add things to the game that if you were not in the game would get overlooked?In post 199, RadiantCowbells wrote:Also I think that it's less content and amount of it you produce and more that you're resistant to town getting set in its ways and you stubbornly bring up whatever direction you're currently in. And yeah that gets you mislynched but I think it helps prevent town from getting complacent which is one of the big killers of towns imo. Being rarely NKed wouldn't hurt you either.
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I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.- RadiantCowbells
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I don't think they are mutually exclusive: but I think that the specifically status quo upsetting way that you tend to play is more important than the content that you provide.
I think in a large part we can be thinking of the same thing but posting it differently because obviously when you post something new that goes against town that's posting content.
But there's a lot of people that post content who sort of follow the grain of the game in a bad way.
I mean I can say a lot about why I think that I'm good but I'm not sure who that benefits here.
The people who think that I'm bad and that my playstyle is an affront to mafia as a game already know the general gist and still feel that way. The fact that I get lynched virtually never as town despite being one of the most paranoia inducing scum players, the fact that I can near 100% of the time lynch exactly who I want to lynch no matter their status in town, the fact that I super consistently read a lot of lynchbaity players that others can't all help, but I think that the people who think I'm good already know that and the people who don't won't care.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.- LicketyQuickety
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Obviously, I am not looking for a brag list. I am looking for what the essence or dominant characteristic is for the reason that people succeed as Town.In post 201, RadiantCowbells wrote:I don't think they are mutually exclusive: but I think that the specifically status quo upsetting way that you tend to play is more important than the content that you provide.
I think in a large part we can be thinking of the same thing but posting it differently because obviously when you post something new that goes against town that's posting content.
But there's a lot of people that post content who sort of follow the grain of the game in a bad way.
I mean I can say a lot about why I think that I'm good but I'm not sure who that benefits here.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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I don't think there's a single answer. In terms of a single, universally adoptable answer I would say that mafia is two parts understanding other people and eight parts understanding yourself.
There's an extent to which 'I can only follow my own reads!' is a ubiquitous thought process but it's also sort of wrong. If you know that you have inconsistent reads you shouldn't be playing chicken with town to force your hands. After every game people should be going back and looking through what worked and what didn't, both so that they can improve their reads in the future but also so they can understand what sorts of triggers are how consistent. You should know more than just that you're scumreading someone, you should know that you're scumreading someone based on X and this has been Y accurate in the past, and if its something you're consistent at you should double down on it and if not and you don't get support quickly, then you should let it go. You don't get better at mafia without trying to rigorously improve yourself. The most important part of any mafia game is postgame when you go back and analyze the game flow and what impact you had on it.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.- mhsmith0
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?- LicketyQuickety
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You should look up how statistics are formed for psychometric psychology traits. For example, if I want to measure what makes a person high or low on the Extrovert scale, I am going to ask them questions like "do you feel happier when you are around people?" or "When you go to a party, do you typically talk with a lot of people or just a few close friends?" You repeat these kinds of questions, and they are all a little different, but they all really are measuring the same thing, because if someone says yes to one of them, then they are likely going to say yes on most of them.In post 203, RadiantCowbells wrote:I don't think there's a single answer. In terms of a single, universally adoptable answer I would say that mafia is two parts understanding other people and eight parts understanding yourself.
There's an extent to which 'I can only follow my own reads!' is a ubiquitous thought process but it's also sort of wrong. If you know that you have inconsistent reads you shouldn't be playing chicken with town to force your hands. After every game people should be going back and looking through what worked and what didn't, both so that they can improve their reads in the future but also so they can understand what sorts of triggers are how consistent. You should know more than just that you're scumreading someone, you should know that you're scumreading someone based on X and this has been Y accurate in the past, and if its something you're consistent at you should double down on it and if not and you don't get support quickly, then you should let it go. You don't get better at mafia without trying to rigorously improve yourself. The most important part of any mafia game is postgame when you go back and analyze the game flow and what impact you had on it.
Basically, if you have two things that are very closely correlated, then they both really mean the same thing. So then you have to find out what those things have in common because they are really measuring the same thing. With this, we are looking at what makes a good Town player. Given there are many different playstyles out there, this means that there must be a defining characteristic into what makes a player good at playing Town. And that is what I think I have figured out. It's that they bring content to the game that would otherwise not be there.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.- Ectomancer
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Scum can bring content to the game that would otherwise not be there as well. What makes a good town player is bringing content and then explaining that content and having it correlate to town motivations. I don't mean meta town motivations. I mean town motivation particular to that game.In post 205, LicketyQuickety wrote:
You should look up how statistics are formed for psychometric psychology traits. For example, if I want to measure what makes a person high or low on the Extrovert scale, I am going to ask them questions like "do you feel happier when you are around people?" or "When you go to a party, do you typically talk with a lot of people or just a few close friends?" You repeat these kinds of questions, and they are all a little different, but they all really are measuring the same thing, because if someone says yes to one of them, then they are likely going to say yes on most of them.In post 203, RadiantCowbells wrote:I don't think there's a single answer. In terms of a single, universally adoptable answer I would say that mafia is two parts understanding other people and eight parts understanding yourself.
There's an extent to which 'I can only follow my own reads!' is a ubiquitous thought process but it's also sort of wrong. If you know that you have inconsistent reads you shouldn't be playing chicken with town to force your hands. After every game people should be going back and looking through what worked and what didn't, both so that they can improve their reads in the future but also so they can understand what sorts of triggers are how consistent. You should know more than just that you're scumreading someone, you should know that you're scumreading someone based on X and this has been Y accurate in the past, and if its something you're consistent at you should double down on it and if not and you don't get support quickly, then you should let it go. You don't get better at mafia without trying to rigorously improve yourself. The most important part of any mafia game is postgame when you go back and analyze the game flow and what impact you had on it.
Basically, if you have two things that are very closely correlated, then they both really mean the same thing. So then you have to find out what those things have in common because they are really measuring the same thing. With this, we are looking at what makes a good Town player. Given there are many different playstyles out there, this means that there must be a defining characteristic into what makes a player good at playing Town. And that is what I think I have figured out. It's that they bring content to the game that would otherwise not be there.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
This unsupported statement brought to you by the Anti-Supported Statement League of the United States and Territories (ASSLUST)- LicketyQuickety
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No offence, but I prolly am not going to take much of what you say seriously because of your sig.In post 206, Ectomancer wrote:
Scum can bring content to the game that would otherwise not be there as well. What makes a good town player is bringing content and then explaining that content and having it correlate to town motivations. I don't mean meta town motivations. I mean town motivation particular to that game.In post 205, LicketyQuickety wrote:
You should look up how statistics are formed for psychometric psychology traits. For example, if I want to measure what makes a person high or low on the Extrovert scale, I am going to ask them questions like "do you feel happier when you are around people?" or "When you go to a party, do you typically talk with a lot of people or just a few close friends?" You repeat these kinds of questions, and they are all a little different, but they all really are measuring the same thing, because if someone says yes to one of them, then they are likely going to say yes on most of them.In post 203, RadiantCowbells wrote:I don't think there's a single answer. In terms of a single, universally adoptable answer I would say that mafia is two parts understanding other people and eight parts understanding yourself.
There's an extent to which 'I can only follow my own reads!' is a ubiquitous thought process but it's also sort of wrong. If you know that you have inconsistent reads you shouldn't be playing chicken with town to force your hands. After every game people should be going back and looking through what worked and what didn't, both so that they can improve their reads in the future but also so they can understand what sorts of triggers are how consistent. You should know more than just that you're scumreading someone, you should know that you're scumreading someone based on X and this has been Y accurate in the past, and if its something you're consistent at you should double down on it and if not and you don't get support quickly, then you should let it go. You don't get better at mafia without trying to rigorously improve yourself. The most important part of any mafia game is postgame when you go back and analyze the game flow and what impact you had on it.
Basically, if you have two things that are very closely correlated, then they both really mean the same thing. So then you have to find out what those things have in common because they are really measuring the same thing. With this, we are looking at what makes a good Town player. Given there are many different playstyles out there, this means that there must be a defining characteristic into what makes a player good at playing Town. And that is what I think I have figured out. It's that they bring content to the game that would otherwise not be there.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.- Ectomancer
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Well if you don't also possess a degree in bullshit in order to determine whether I am serious or not, I completely understand your position. Of course you could be referring to ASSLUST but we all have our unsupported statements don't we?In post 207, LicketyQuickety wrote:
No offence, but I prolly am not going to take much of what you say seriously because of your sig.In post 206, Ectomancer wrote:
Scum can bring content to the game that would otherwise not be there as well. What makes a good town player is bringing content and then explaining that content and having it correlate to town motivations. I don't mean meta town motivations. I mean town motivation particular to that game.In post 205, LicketyQuickety wrote:
You should look up how statistics are formed for psychometric psychology traits. For example, if I want to measure what makes a person high or low on the Extrovert scale, I am going to ask them questions like "do you feel happier when you are around people?" or "When you go to a party, do you typically talk with a lot of people or just a few close friends?" You repeat these kinds of questions, and they are all a little different, but they all really are measuring the same thing, because if someone says yes to one of them, then they are likely going to say yes on most of them.In post 203, RadiantCowbells wrote:I don't think there's a single answer. In terms of a single, universally adoptable answer I would say that mafia is two parts understanding other people and eight parts understanding yourself.
There's an extent to which 'I can only follow my own reads!' is a ubiquitous thought process but it's also sort of wrong. If you know that you have inconsistent reads you shouldn't be playing chicken with town to force your hands. After every game people should be going back and looking through what worked and what didn't, both so that they can improve their reads in the future but also so they can understand what sorts of triggers are how consistent. You should know more than just that you're scumreading someone, you should know that you're scumreading someone based on X and this has been Y accurate in the past, and if its something you're consistent at you should double down on it and if not and you don't get support quickly, then you should let it go. You don't get better at mafia without trying to rigorously improve yourself. The most important part of any mafia game is postgame when you go back and analyze the game flow and what impact you had on it.
Basically, if you have two things that are very closely correlated, then they both really mean the same thing. So then you have to find out what those things have in common because they are really measuring the same thing. With this, we are looking at what makes a good Town player. Given there are many different playstyles out there, this means that there must be a defining characteristic into what makes a player good at playing Town. And that is what I think I have figured out. It's that they bring content to the game that would otherwise not be there.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
This unsupported statement brought to you by the Anti-Supported Statement League of the United States and Territories (ASSLUST)- LicketyQuickety
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I wasn't keyed into the buzzwords people are using these days so I didn't even notice that. Apologies.In post 208, Ectomancer wrote:
Well if you don't also possess a degree in bullshit in order to determine whether I am serious or not, I completely understand your position. Of course you could be referring to ASSLUST but we all have our unsupported statements don't we?In post 207, LicketyQuickety wrote:
No offence, but I prolly am not going to take much of what you say seriously because of your sig.In post 206, Ectomancer wrote:
Scum can bring content to the game that would otherwise not be there as well. What makes a good town player is bringing content and then explaining that content and having it correlate to town motivations. I don't mean meta town motivations. I mean town motivation particular to that game.In post 205, LicketyQuickety wrote:
You should look up how statistics are formed for psychometric psychology traits. For example, if I want to measure what makes a person high or low on the Extrovert scale, I am going to ask them questions like "do you feel happier when you are around people?" or "When you go to a party, do you typically talk with a lot of people or just a few close friends?" You repeat these kinds of questions, and they are all a little different, but they all really are measuring the same thing, because if someone says yes to one of them, then they are likely going to say yes on most of them.In post 203, RadiantCowbells wrote:I don't think there's a single answer. In terms of a single, universally adoptable answer I would say that mafia is two parts understanding other people and eight parts understanding yourself.
There's an extent to which 'I can only follow my own reads!' is a ubiquitous thought process but it's also sort of wrong. If you know that you have inconsistent reads you shouldn't be playing chicken with town to force your hands. After every game people should be going back and looking through what worked and what didn't, both so that they can improve their reads in the future but also so they can understand what sorts of triggers are how consistent. You should know more than just that you're scumreading someone, you should know that you're scumreading someone based on X and this has been Y accurate in the past, and if its something you're consistent at you should double down on it and if not and you don't get support quickly, then you should let it go. You don't get better at mafia without trying to rigorously improve yourself. The most important part of any mafia game is postgame when you go back and analyze the game flow and what impact you had on it.
Basically, if you have two things that are very closely correlated, then they both really mean the same thing. So then you have to find out what those things have in common because they are really measuring the same thing. With this, we are looking at what makes a good Town player. Given there are many different playstyles out there, this means that there must be a defining characteristic into what makes a player good at playing Town. And that is what I think I have figured out. It's that they bring content to the game that would otherwise not be there.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.- LicketyQuickety
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It occurs to me that getting a single TR correct is very well 1/12, but this is compounded the more reads you make. So if you make a readslist of everyone and get like 2/3 correct, you are actually doing pretty good.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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it's 9/12In post 210, LicketyQuickety wrote:It occurs to me that getting a single TR correct is very well 1/12THIS POST IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT.- LicketyQuickety
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Whatever. what I meant is that the chance compounds and gets smaller the more guesses you make.In post 211, vonflare wrote:
it's 9/12In post 210, LicketyQuickety wrote:It occurs to me that getting a single TR correct is very well 1/12I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.- Ellibereth
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you realize 2/3 right on a readslist for everyone isn't necessarily good right
for 12 player with 9/3 distribution and assuming you assign everyone T or S, the possibilites are then that you're right on 1 and wrong on 2 (if declaring 3 scum), that you have all the scum on your 'scumlist' but you're calling 7 people scum, that you have 2 scum right out of a list of 5 and have the last one as town, or you have 1 scumread and it's wrong.FLASH OF GREEN- Ellibereth
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Right, but is it bad? If every Town member get's 2/3 wrong, what are Town's chances of winning if they all decide to lynch the people they agree are Scum?In post 213, Ellibereth wrote:you realize 2/3 right on a readslist for everyone isn't necessarily good right
for 12 player with 9/3 distribution and assuming you assign everyone T or S, the possibilites are then that you're right on 1 and wrong on 2 (if declaring 3 scum), that you have all the scum on your 'scumlist' but you're calling 7 people scum, that you have 2 scum right out of a list of 5 and have the last one as town, or you have 1 scumread and it's wrong.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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Scum input and manipulation of gamestate means the lynch is not determined by whoever town agrees is scum.
Plus I assume it would be approximately equivalent to random lynch statistics.- LicketyQuickety
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How manipulative Scum is is dependent on how well Scum actually play. When we are talking about static variables, there isn't really room for random variables.In post 216, Mathdino wrote:Scum input and manipulation of gamestate means the lynch is not determined by whoever town agrees is scum.
Plus I assume it would be approximately equivalent to random lynch statistics.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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it's going to be a mislynch because if there's an intersection (which isn't that likely), it's on the 1 person that's being scumread incorrectly in case 4.In post 215, LicketyQuickety wrote:
Right, but is it bad? If every Town member get's 2/3 wrong, what are Town's chances of winning if they all decide to lynch the people they agree are Scum?In post 213, Ellibereth wrote:you realize 2/3 right on a readslist for everyone isn't necessarily good right
for 12 player with 9/3 distribution and assuming you assign everyone T or S, the possibilites are then that you're right on 1 and wrong on 2 (if declaring 3 scum), that you have all the scum on your 'scumlist' but you're calling 7 people scum, that you have 2 scum right out of a list of 5 and have the last one as town, or you have 1 scumread and it's wrong.FLASH OF GREEN- Ranmaru
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Deep. I do agree with the whole post by the way. I am still only starting to understand myself.In post 203, RadiantCowbells wrote:I don't think there's a single answer. In terms of a single, universally adoptable answer I would say that mafia is two parts understanding other people and eight parts understanding yourself.- Sephiroth
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I think this is definitely something mods can take steps to deal with without straight up post restricting people (i.e. Geriatric ruleset).In post 220, Sephiroth wrote:I'm just tried of thread spam. Like, no one will ever replace into a D2 150+ page game. Spamming the thread is demonstrably anti-town yet it seems to be the definition of new site meta. I miss '07 =(
There's a pretty good argument for a duck argument for spam. If it looks like spam, you'll know it when you see it.
As long as mods enforce this regardless of alignment (which has the side effect of restricting "tactical" spam whenever it might be useful), I think it can be dealt with.- Thestatusquo
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Frankly how dare you.In post 200, LicketyQuickety wrote: challenging the status quotout comprendre c'est tout pardonner- Thestatusquo
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its funny because the argument all the hyper posters make is that more posting equals higher town win rates despite the fact that town win rates are garbage rn compared to other times in the sites history.In post 220, Sephiroth wrote:I'm just tried of thread spam. Like, no one will ever replace into a D2 150+ page game. Spamming the thread is demonstrably anti-town yet it seems to be the definition of new site meta. I miss '07 =(
mostly because most of the people who espouse this style are bad rather than the style itself, but the style certainly doesn't help the ones who aren't.tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner - Thestatusquo
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