Site Meta Thread

[Lil Uzi Vert]

All things site meta!

Here we talk about why towns have been struggling as of late and if there’s any way to close the gap.

[KidAmn]

Because towns have been steadily spoonfed more and more town power and less power on scumteams to make up for the fact that 90% of newer players come from sites where Gameplan 1 is "follow the PR" and Gameplan 2 is nonexistent so they have no idea what the fuck to do

/thread

[Ellibereth]

People blame people other than themselves for losses and think they did most to everything right so they don't improve.

[Creature]

It's not even that players are easily manipulable, it's that players are so close-minded.

[Nexus]

Town get drowned out by the sheer amount of bullshit posts within a thread to the point where they lose interest and scum can coast to victory

[mhsmith0]

Site meta in terms of quality of play tends to be self-reinforcing. Towns consistently play terribly, so people see that and, consciously or not, emulate it. Scumhunting is hard, and when you see that no one else can be bothered with it (and ftr, making one random read and yelling a lot that this person is obvscum and therefore should be lynched is not, by any reasonable definition, "scumhunting"), you tend to not really want to bother with it either. This also lends itself to towns getting silly levels of power just to keep up any kind of competitive win rate, and then you end up with a lazier and lazier race to the bottom.

[Ellibereth]

I mean I understand the qualms of the whole geriatric crew and am an absolute supporter of that sort of game being a consistent thing.

But blaming losses hyperposters and "bullshit" in a nongeriatric game because you consequently can't keep up is silly. Someone could argue just as easily the blame lies on the person that's unable to keep up. It doesn't just go in one direction.

[Ellibereth]

(and ftr, making one random read and yelling a lot that this person is obvscum and therefore should be lynched is not, by any reasonable definition, "scumhunting")

I mean, it is if you take away the word "random".

It's just that if you want to do that succesfully in thread consistently there's probably a decent amount of hidden work you have to do that never makes it to the thread.

[Creature]

What if everyone has different scumreads they don't want to change?

[Mulch]

90% of newer players come from sites where Gameplan 1 is "follow the PR" and Gameplan 2 is nonexistent so they have no idea what the fuck to do

Incorrect, this is horrible

[Mulch]

Town get drowned out by the sheer amount of bullshit posts within a thread to the point where they lose interest and scum can coast to victory

Possible

[Ellibereth]

I mean I think recognizing when someone else's reads are more likely to be right than your own is an important skill to develop. I'm plenty comfortable with being a sheep a whole game and I think there's nothing wrong with that.

The usual result of the scenario you're describing is the most charismatic person in the fight wins for better or worse.

[Creature]

Civilization mafia didn't result in a town loss because of spam, it resulted in a town loss because of the close-mindedness. The spam was the consequence of the close-mindedness because we had to shout pages to make a single soul listen.

[Mulch]

The reason towns struggle:

1) Overconfidence in reads

2) People think non scummy things are scummy

[Ellibereth]

If the goal is improvement, I feel like most people (guilty myself) focus on improving other people over themselves.

Quoting myself from elsewhere:

Honestly - after most losses - there's probably some set of things any individual player could have done differently that would have flipped the result to a win. If the interest is in getting better that's probably the best mindset to have, and I think that the statement is generally true.

If everyone said "town lost this game I fucked up. I think my fuckups were BLANK, BLANK, BLANK" instead of "YOU GUYS SUCKED AAA THROW" I'm sure the play level would go up.

[Alisaes French Maid]

A large amount of players on the site at the moment good, "good" and bad all think that when they get mislynched it is due to awful towns and when they get awful reads it is also due to bad towns the latter kinda bothers me more. "I thought the scum player was scum but the town player was so fucking bad I had no choice" is a really awful excuse for losing a game. Yes there are cases of awful towns screwing over individual players but even then there are moments in games when you need to unify the town and lead lynches onto scum by yourself and if you can't do that then you should work on improving your game in that regard.

As a result of this blame everyone else mentality where you can never take blame yourself people never adapt game by game and never improve at mafia which is just shit.

[Mulch]

2) People think non scummy things are scummy

Specifically this

[Alisaes French Maid]

If everyone said "town lost this game I fucked up. I think my fuckups were BLANK, BLANK, BLANK" instead of "YOU GUYS SUCKED AAA THROW" I'm sure the play level would go up.

Holy shit I was ninjad by this.
But Elli is 100% absolutely right and this is an issue even good players have that stop them from being great players.

Like literally the plague of this site.

[KidAmn]

90% of newer players come from sites where Gameplan 1 is "follow the PR" and Gameplan 2 is nonexistent so they have no idea what the fuck to do

Incorrect, this is horrible

Are you just going to follow me around and dispute anything I say without any reasoning in discussion now as well as doing it in your games

Because "random lynch until a PR comes out to lead town" is literally 95% of games on ToS and EM, and the other 10% is players from sites that aren't Mafia focused and as such have a tiny pool of players and thus a more insular meta

[Mulch]

90% of newer players come from sites where Gameplan 1 is "follow the PR" and Gameplan 2 is nonexistent so they have no idea what the fuck to do

Incorrect, this is horrible

Are you just going to follow me around and dispute anything I say without any reasoning in discussion now as well as doing it in your games

Because "random lynch until a PR comes out to lead town" is literally 95% of games on ToS and EM, and the other 10% is players from sites that aren't Mafia focused and as such have a tiny pool of players and thus a more insular meta

What about new players?

[KidAmn]

90% of newer players come from sites where Gameplan 1 is "follow the PR" and Gameplan 2 is nonexistent so they have no idea what the fuck to do

Incorrect, this is horrible

Are you just going to follow me around and dispute anything I say without any reasoning in discussion now as well as doing it in your games

Because "random lynch until a PR comes out to lead town" is literally 95% of games on ToS and EM, and the other 10% is players from sites that aren't Mafia focused and as such have a tiny pool of players and thus a more insular meta

What about new players?

I would argue that the number of players with literally zero Mafia experience who join MS is so minimal as to be statistically irrelevant, note that you can't actually disagree with my assessments, and then remember I intended to foe you a long time ago after your nearly 500 posts of useless wibble in LN206

Bye Felicia

[Alisaes French Maid]

Mulch's name is Felicia?
I never knew that owo

[Mulch]

90% of newer players come from sites where Gameplan 1 is "follow the PR" and Gameplan 2 is nonexistent so they have no idea what the fuck to do

Incorrect, this is horrible

Are you just going to follow me around and dispute anything I say without any reasoning in discussion now as well as doing it in your games

Because "random lynch until a PR comes out to lead town" is literally 95% of games on ToS and EM, and the other 10% is players from sites that aren't Mafia focused and as such have a tiny pool of players and thus a more insular meta

What about new players?

I would argue that the number of players with literally zero Mafia experience who join MS is so minimal as to be statistically irrelevant, note that you can't actually disagree with my assessments, and then remember I intended to foe you a long time ago after your nearly 500 posts of useless wibble in LN206

Bye Felicia

Who was the one with 0/9 correct day 1 reads, and who was the one with 4/7?

[KidAmn]

90% of newer players come from sites where Gameplan 1 is "follow the PR" and Gameplan 2 is nonexistent so they have no idea what the fuck to do

Incorrect, this is horrible

Are you just going to follow me around and dispute anything I say without any reasoning in discussion now as well as doing it in your games

Because "random lynch until a PR comes out to lead town" is literally 95% of games on ToS and EM, and the other 10% is players from sites that aren't Mafia focused and as such have a tiny pool of players and thus a more insular meta

What about new players?

I would argue that the number of players with literally zero Mafia experience who join MS is so minimal as to be statistically irrelevant, note that you can't actually disagree with my assessments, and then remember I intended to foe you a long time ago after your nearly 500 posts of useless wibble in LN206

Bye Felicia

Who was the one with 0/9 correct day 1 reads, and who was the one with 4/7?

They were both you because you spent what time you were in that game schizophrenically hopping back and forth on literally everyone while managing to say absolutely nothing of use

I thought I'd made it clear that I was politely suggesting you drop this because I have no desire to speak to you, but in case I didn't - leave me the fuck alone, you PoS

[Creature]

Because "random lynch until a PR comes out to lead town" is literally 95% of games on ToS and EM, and the other 10% is players from sites that aren't Mafia focused and as such have a tiny pool of players and thus a more insular meta

Maybe we just don't have this "random" element.