How to deal with a Cop Guilty? (N0/N1)

[Mathdino]

Hey all, been procrastinating on this one.

Recently I finished an Open (with questionable design but that's beside the point) in which I was a Cop for nightstart. Wanted to townclear Bins and she came back guilty.

Problem is, while I love getting/crumbing innocents on people, I have no idea how to deal with an immediate guilty. My strategy was to let RVS continue and then pounce on Bins for meta and "scumslipping" around 10 pages in. Naturally the wagon didn't pick up steam, I got some flak for it, and I had to claim the guilty before they mislynched someone. Lynched Bins and luckily they had enough associations to get the rest of the mafia.

So I'm pretty comfortable with the strategy of "Let the game play out and get enough associations to nail the team". It seems clearly better than outing in RVS.

My question is:

How would you get a guilty lynched without outing yourself?

I tried to do this briefly but I ended up scumming it up because I didn't even believe my own case. I just believed my guilty.

Second,

what's your strategy when you get a N1 guilty on someone?

Do you push them, crumb them, or out them?

[Espeonage]

Always out. Numbers just says this flat out.

[Mathdino]

I guess it's more a question of, when do you out them, and if you try not to lynch them without outing them, how do you push a lynch on scum confirmed only to you?

[Korts]

I guess it's more a question of, when do you out them, and if you try not to lynch them without outing them, how do you push a lynch on scum confirmed only to you?

I think in general terms, what you did is what you need to do in a situation like this. Give scum the space to incriminate themselves, and make an effort to get there through conventional scumhunting (of course, with a guilty result in hand, everything looks scummy by default). If the lynch is likely to go through on its own, make sure to breadcrumb your result before it does, lest any later claim look like you're trying to make it look stronger with a guilty on an already flipped scum.

If the lynch doesn't go through on its own, then you claim, get NK'd for your troubles, and hope that the town has enough to work with to catch the partners. I don't think it's responsible to let the Day pass without the confscum getting lynched.

[Gamma Emerald]

Shadow_Step taught me to push the guilty for content before outing so associations can be formed

[Korts]

make an effort to get there through conventional scumhunting (of course, with a guilty result in hand, everything looks scummy by default)

To clarify this, because it seems this is your main concern, I think you have to be able to pinpoint at least one clear scumtell to make a proper case.

To get a clear scumtell, you can apply pressure based on a "gut feeling," perhaps. People contradict themselves all the time, you just need to set the environment for it.

You can also pit them against their scumreads, or give prompts to your townreads to see how they read your target, and lead off that, and probably a bunch of other ideas.

Basically, there are a variety of methods, and it really depends on the type of player you are, and the type of player you are dealing with. I don't think there is a single script that can be followed in terms of building the case.

But don't do meta cases, because a) meta cases are 80% bullshit on the best of days, and b) you're already biased against them, and will only pick up on meta examples that prove your point.

[Flubbernugget]

Cop for scum is a good trade. Even better if you're something weaker like tracker, etc

Deciding to try and lynch a guilty without an out is a gambit, and should not be used in the typical case.

Side note, don't make it to mylo/lylo with an investigative. Ever.

[Ellibereth]

I think it depends on if you think the town would be in a good place after the trade.
You go for riskier stuff if you think you're still losing after the 1 for 1.

[Thestatusquo]

Day 1 I would never just claim. If you can get her lynched without claiming thats a trade you don't need to make. As long as you're not a player with a history of faking guilties (and please dont be that) you should be believed even if you have to claim later on in the day to get it through.

[Thestatusquo]

Don't under any circumstances let someone else be lynched though, claim to stop that if you have to.

[Flubbernugget]

That's a good balance between claiming and not

[Mathdino]

Thanks for the advice guys.

Yeah I have no meta of faking guilties (obv) and I obviously understand that lynching confirmed scum is better than anything else.

The question is how to eventually get to that end, which Korts addressed. The way I did it was super suboptimal and it's a weirdly scum-minded position to be in an informed minority trying to lynch a player you know more about than anyone else.

[Zachrulez]

There's probably something to be said by claiming that you have a guilty result and then forcing the players to react to that long before you actually reveal the result. If you run into bad enough players (Probably should say players playing badly enough.) you might be able to get more scum to out themselves by thinking they are the guilty without actually saying so.

[RadiantCowbells]

say that you cheated and talked to me outside of the game about the game and that I told you that bins was 100% going to flip scum

[schadd_]

cuz when the lovin starts and the lights go down
and there's not another livin soul around
you woo me until the sun comes up, and you

say that you cheated and talked to me outside of the game about the game and that I told you that bins was 100% going to flip scum

[Thestatusquo]

say that you cheated and talked to me outside of the game about the game and that I told you that bins was 100% going to flip scum

you're not being clever here, fuck off.

[mhsmith0]

If you get a n0 guilty you should go find a setup where that sort of horribleness is not possible.

[Ranmaru]

Like a mountainous.

[RadiantCowbells]

say that you cheated and talked to me outside of the game about the game and that I told you that bins was 100% going to flip scum

you're not being clever here, fuck off.

This was a profoundly serious suggestion.

It's an amazing crumb.

[northsidegal]

Same question but different context – how to deal with a cop guilty

on yourself

?

Recently i finished a game as scum where i knew i was guiltied coming into the day but the cop didn't want to out. The cop was widely scumread but rather than trying to push for his lynch i went for someone else's lynch, with the reasoning being that there was the chance that he wouldn't out his guilty today and then the next day (which would've been lylo) the guilty would've been less believable.

As it happened the cop outed the guilty on me when it seemed like i wouldn't be lynched without it and everyone switched from scumreading him to me. i didn't last long after that.

[Ellibereth]

maybe claim a guilty on the cop before they claims it on you?
idk scumbereth is mediocre

[Mathdino]

No yeah you basically have to call a cop guilty on the cop themselves. First person to claim looks much better. Alternatively, crumb the guilty when you suspect it and when you push him to a claim, counterclaim and show your crumb.

PR hunting is a good skill

[Firebringer]

Claim ur role makes u Miller when activated and you used it last night to BP urself

[Alisae]

Thanks for the pro tip fire
I'ma do that when I get n0/n1 guiltied.

[Firebringer]

My next tip would be yell at Alisae for putting in a N0 guilty in his game