Is scum at a disadvantage?
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Is scum at a disadvantage?
Scum factional kill is a way to trade off killing responsibilities. Town can lynch, scum can night kill.
Day Talk gives scum an advantage to coordinate their actions i.e. quick hammering a mislynch while Night talk gives them the advantage to coordinate who would be best to target with the NK.
What would be their chances if scum didn't have a factional night kill ability and they only have Day Talk?- Mathdino
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No scum NK means the game is effectively nightless. Quickhammer only helps in LyLo.
Speaking strictly in terms of probabilities, the Nightless Rule indicates that 8p 2:6 Nightless is balanced while 9p 2:7 Nightless has a 5/9 expected town winrate.
Nightless weights toward town in that scum can't remove strong obvtown players, but weights toward scum in that lynches aren't actually random and are influenced by the scumteam to be on town.- RadiantCowbells
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AnonymousGhost Mafia Scum
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My impression that killing someone who threatened you - as scum - actually lends what they say more credibility because they've flipped green.
In a nightless game, playing as mafia just means that you probably have to be a suave smooth talker, without getting the FoS traced back to you. To be fair, if you managed to "mislynch" repeatedly and still look town, you're probably doing something right.
Looking back at the Nightless Rules that indicates a 8p is supposedly an fair win rate for both town and scum, I'm going to guess that throwing PRs into the mix rocks that fair win rate probability.- RadiantCowbells
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Reduce variance how?
Agreed on the 'better team' aspect though.- Ectomancer
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As in you don't suddenly lose someone widely regarded as a valuable player to the town.In post 7, AnonymousGhost wrote:Reduce variance how?I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
This unsupported statement brought to you by the Anti-Supported Statement League of the United States and Territories (ASSLUST)- RadiantCowbells
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There's no PRs which can fuck over scum playing strong, there's no nightkills to get rid of the people keeping town together
It's literally just a question, at its most pure, of who can towntell and/or push scum wincon the most effectively
keeping in mind that every time you have a partner lynched in non-nightless you have the same amount of mislynches to go. In nightless, you have to get an extra mislynch for every partner lynch.
So being able to effectively push scum wincon matters far more and you have less leverage to reduce the pool of players and take advantage of a few bad town when the town powerhouses are still alive to late game
Individual towns can do a lot more in nightless and individual scum power is a lot more required2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.- kuribo
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In post 5, AnonymousGhost wrote:My impression that killing someone who threatened you - as scum - actually lends what they say more credibility because they've flipped green.
In a nightless game, playing as mafia just means that you probably have to be a suave smooth talker, without getting the FoS traced back to you. To be fair, if you managed to "mislynch" repeatedly and still look town, you're probably doing something right.
Looking back at the Nightless Rules that indicates a 8p is supposedly an fair win rate for both town and scum, I'm going to guess that throwing PRs into the mix rocks that fair win rate probability.
This would be true if people didn't misinterpret the reads of the dead and if they didn't generally ignore the dead.
Kill-divining is a lost art, mired through over a decade of bad play and WIFOM-fears, to the point where scum can usually kill whoever they want without repercussion.Join me on my quest to play every NES game! Some of them are awful.
Kuribo's read is foolproof: one night he was high on NyQuil, and he's ancestors reveiled Aureal's alignment to him. - Dessew- Magister Ludi
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The best strategy consistently seems to be, as scum, kill whoever thinks you are scum. No one will suspect you for it. Now you have one less person trying to lynch you.In post 10, kuribo wrote:In post 5, AnonymousGhost wrote:My impression that killing someone who threatened you - as scum - actually lends what they say more credibility because they've flipped green.
In a nightless game, playing as mafia just means that you probably have to be a suave smooth talker, without getting the FoS traced back to you. To be fair, if you managed to "mislynch" repeatedly and still look town, you're probably doing something right.
Looking back at the Nightless Rules that indicates a 8p is supposedly an fair win rate for both town and scum, I'm going to guess that throwing PRs into the mix rocks that fair win rate probability.
This would be true if people didn't misinterpret the reads of the dead and if they didn't generally ignore the dead.
Kill-divining is a lost art, mired through over a decade of bad play and WIFOM-fears, to the point where scum can usually kill whoever they want without repercussion.- Flubbernugget
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When I play as mafia my team is usually worried about killing who suspects us the most. If most scum players play this way, retaliatory nk's become effective not because nk analysis is a "lost art" but because the direct kill breaks site meta.
The other hand says I've seen players consider nka to be on the same level as setup spec (a dumb opinion fwiw)- AnonymousGhost
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I like how this thread has slowly segued from disadvantages that the scum team could have with a lack of their factional NK ability to the usefulness of NKA.- Flubbernugget
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It depends on the player. I've flat out killed my own counterclaims.
I used to have a flowchart showing how I decide to NK, but in general it boils down to the attitude I always have regardless of alignment: "I should be allowed to do whatever I want, whenever I want without repercussions from the town."Join me on my quest to play every NES game! Some of them are awful.
Kuribo's read is foolproof: one night he was high on NyQuil, and he's ancestors reveiled Aureal's alignment to him. - Dessew- Alisae
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basicly how to play scum in a nutshellIn post 15, kuribo wrote:"I should be allowed to do whatever I want, whenever I want without repercussions from the town."| here.GTKAS- kuribo
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The whole idea behind the carnival of lunacy playstyle and the mist playstyle is that both require refuge in audacity.
Basically if you tell yourself that you can talk your way out of anything, you have a better chance of getting another day out of it. Even if you're doomed, another day alive is better than a lynch today.Join me on my quest to play every NES game! Some of them are awful.
Kuribo's read is foolproof: one night he was high on NyQuil, and he's ancestors reveiled Aureal's alignment to him. - Dessew- mastina
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Sad, but oh so true. People don't bother to do NKA, those that do often do it wrong, and because of the people who do it wrong those that don't do it will refuse to accept the analysis as valid even when the person doing NKAIn post 11, Magister Ludi wrote:The best strategy consistently seems to be, as scum, kill whoever thinks you are scum. No one will suspect you for it. Now you have one less person trying to lynch you.didn'tdo it wrong.
It's my go-to scum strategy for good reason: boring, but practical; it WORKS.- AnonymousGhost
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Thread keeps getting sidetracked. /shrug
It happens.
Thanks for satisfying my curiosity~ :3 - AnonymousGhost
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