In post 0, JaydragonKing wrote:Alright guys, I want a legitimate discussion on the roles classified as "Third Party" and what they actually do around here.
Question One: What effects Third Parties could have if even one of them is in your game?
By definition, Third Parties break the standard balance property that what's good for town is bad for scum, and vice versa. As a result, they make optimal play a lot more complex; for example, it can sometimes benefit scum in a game with a Serial Killer to look mildly scummy, so that they don't end up getting killed by the SK if they're trying to hit town; and it can often benefit town in a game with a Jester to
not
lynch someone who's more or less certainly anti-town. In general, games work better if everyone has a straightforward idea of what sort of play will work towards their win condition, and third parties kind-of interfere with that.
Question Two: If we could have one more third party be legal in Normal Games, which would it be?
I'd be against adding any sort of additional third party to Normals. If I had to, I'd try to sneak some of my favourites in, on the basis that they're my favourites because they're less damaging to a game than normal, and on the basis that they're more Normal-appropriate than the most commonly accepted sort of third party.
Question Three: is there a preferred or hated type of Third Party site wide?
Jester,
Lyncher,
Survivor, and
Cult Leader are all sufficiently hated that at one point, many moderators would put up signup disclaimers saying that their game didn't contain any of those, as players wouldn't join the setup anyway. (Out of these four, the Cult is probably the least disliked; players will absolutely hate you if you put one in a setup unannounced, but if you design a setup from the outside as a Cult game, mention that in the setup advertising, and get a
really
good reviewer to make sure the balance works, you'll get players. Try that with a Lyncher or Survivor, and you won't. Try that with a Jester, and you probably will but you might not like how the resulting game goes.)
More oddball third parties tend to be more widely accepted, especially if they tie into a Theme game's special mechanics. Something along the lines of "Serial Killer + some relevant immunities + something powerful that ties into the game's mechanics" is fairly common and doesn't unduly annoy players (other than, on occasion, the player who actually draws the role).
Question Four: Probably should have been one, but your favorite Third Party?
I tend to only like third party roles which encourage players to do something that they would have been doing anyway with more standard win conditions. For example, an
Unjester has incentives to not get lynched (obviously), but also to scumhunt/townhunt well and try to get rid of scum via the lynch (because that'll make them a threat to scum and thus more likely to get nightkilled as a result). That sounds a lot like a Vanilla Townie, doesn't it? The roles definitely aren't identical, but they're similar enough that an Unjester probably won't ruin the game, for any of the three factions.
Another example would be a player who has to try to keep a particular scum player alive, and has an ability to communicate with them. It's not the same thing as being a member of the scumteam, but from a balance point of view, it's pretty similar, and likewise the other players won't have to do anything unusual to make the role work.
