Keeping your vote in play

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Keeping your vote in play

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:47 pm

Post by Ranmaru »

So, what are the pro's and con's to this. How can we encourage players to use their vote more? How can we encourage newbies to vote more. I have only really seen this being harped on in team mafia games, especially by CES, so I'd like more discussion on it.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:26 am

Post by Mathdino »

Policy lynch everyone who doesn't vote
It's very very slightly more likely to hit scum than random actually
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:00 am

Post by GuyInFreezer »

Tell them that vote is their weapon in the battlefield
and not using it is like not using your weapon in the battlefield.
Show
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WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:46 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Thor665 made a good post on it, I might go find it
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:56 am

Post by Mathdino »

Tfw he made that post as scum though trying to mislynch non voters
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:57 am

Post by Mathdino »

Subject: Newbie 1856 - It Was A Very Good Year: GAME OVER!
Thor665 wrote:Just as a general IC observation, and to explain one of the points I'm rampaging about in my above post to multiple people, I'd like to describe something that just happened in this game, and that I often see happen in Newbie games (and that I personally detest).

1. People will RVS. (I find this brilliant and good)
2. People will hold people accountable for their RVS choices (I find this brilliant and good)
3. People will respond to #2 (I find this brilliant and good)
4. People will then unvote their RVS and claim it as a joke...and do *nothing else with their vote*. (I will slightly vomit into my inner soul in sadness)

Look. Let me explain it like a joke;

Currently we have a lot of people voting 'Not Voting'. The hing is, I town read 'Not Voting', anyone with half a brain should. I guran-damn-tee you that 'Not Voting' does not have a scum role PM. 100% of the time voting him will not result in your vote being on scum.

Now, I'll *agree* that voting town is a bad thing for town to do. It does not help the town wincon to vote for town. And I also get that voting
Not Voting' will result in a 0% chance of voting town - huzzah for you. That said, generally speaking if you vote a random player in the game (and, yes, forgive me, I'm going to simplify the math, but it's a general statement, go with the basics and don't get bogged down in the specifics.) But, mathwise - random vote will be 66% on town and 33% on scum.

So let's compare;

100% of the time, the only way town wins is by voting scum and not voting town.
0% of 'Not Voting' votes are on scum (or town)
66% of all other votes are on town.
33% of all other votes are on scum.

So...how do you expect to vote scum by voting 'Not Voting' exactly?
or is that a meaningless, wasted vote, that is of zero help to your wincon, and is arguably a place for scum to hide and avoid stuff whereas it is *never* a place beneficial for town to be?

Not everyone agrees with me on this, so take it with your own grains of salt.
but I'm pretty sure I'm right.
And I 100% know the math is right.
And even the best argument against me is that people want to wait for "more info" before placing a vote...which requires them to ignore that info conversation is pretty much 99.9% generated from votes being placed, so even then they're wrong and I'm right.

Just a thought.
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:25 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

it was a good post though
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:46 am

Post by Mathdino »

1. i disagree with the idea that voting for town is unhelpful for town wincon. thor is jumping to the conclusion that voting for town is unhelpful when it's really LYNCHING town that is unhelpful. the strange thing about this game is that the vast majority of votes do not lead to a lynch, and oftentimes can't possibly be expected to lead to a lynch.
like the vote is such a weird arbitrary concept and the idea of it as a weapon is such a weird emergent construct from mafia
despite the fact that we all know most votes are useless, we all in some way react to votes, consciously or subconsciously
anyway that's a tangent

2. there are many good players who basically don't vote and only vote people they'd be willing to dayvig
partially because they recognise that the vote is kind of a meaningless construct until the vote is actually used to reach a lynch
so they use scumreads and FoS's to demonstrate what the rest of us would use votes for, and that's somewhat valid to me (if annoying because it makes things like VCA harder since they don't play like the rest of us)

that said too many players copy that style of being nervous to vote anyone they're not sure on
but then extrapolate that to also being useless in other areas of townplay
to the point of being unwilling to actually take stances on anything

so as a general rule, thor's POV would be helpful to the game of mafia, and is what we should be teaching newbies
i just don't think it works as a universal rule

sorry for the essay
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:43 pm

Post by mastina »

I always place a vote, 99% of the time.
Exceptions being:
-When voting is likely to lose the game
-When voting will expose a gambit I don't want exposed
-When I need to emphasize an unvote (to emphasize the player I was voting is town) but am literally not in the game enough to move it (this is a very, very, very rare, specific, situational circumstance but does happen).

Otherwise, I always vote--preferably my largest suspect, but anyone I hold suspicion on, I will vote.

If I don't have any suspects...something has gone terribly, horribly wrong with the game and I should be promptly and immediately fixing that.
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:21 pm

Post by Zachrulez »

Should be careful... attacking someone for not voting is a very easy thing to do and thus that makes is a very easy thing for scum to do. It's real easy to stigmatize something as bad absent context and turn it against someone.

... That said I've been known for going after people who have ended up in the not voting column in critical situations. It can be an easy way to avoid taking a stance on an issue which is a good place for scum to be. Easy to coast in a game when you don't have any stances to be roasted on. I definitely don't care nearly as much if someone's vote is inactive in a situation where a lynch is not close and likely won't be for the foreseeable future. Forcing people to vote can force them into taking stances without any real conviction and can risk turning the game into a bit of a mess. (Oh your reasons for voting B are crap... Vote: A)
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:25 pm

Post by Ranmaru »

That makes sense. I don't want to force people to vote without true conviction. This convinces me to instead just ask people who are not voting, why they are not voting. How's that? That way, they show why, and I'm not forcing them into anything, just seeing their thought process for not actively using it. If something is easy for scum to do, should town refrain from doing it so people don't call them out on it? :P
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:48 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

In post 7, Mathdino wrote:2. there are many good players who basically don't vote and only vote people they'd be willing to dayvig
partially because they recognise that the vote is kind of a meaningless construct until the vote is actually used to reach a lynch
so they use scumreads and FoS's to demonstrate what the rest of us would use votes for, and that's somewhat valid to me (if annoying because it makes things like VCA harder since they don't play like the rest of us)
I think this is actually how my home site plays generally. This leads to a lot of stagnation in day play and no-lynching via inability to accumulate votes.
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:20 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In that case I stand corrected, people probably do deserve to get attacked ingame by town and scum for not voting
Thanks for the data Gamma
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:48 am

Post by Something_Smart »

People who confbias easily should not vote unless they have a confident read.
Most people confbias easily.
∴ Most people should not vote unless they have a confident read.
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