Some Hydra questions?

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Some Hydra questions?

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:22 pm

Post by kuribo »

If I were to buy an Ouija board and commune with the restless dead to help win mafia games, would I have to list all of the spirits individually, or would a blanket terminology suffice? If I communed with the ancestors of other players to discern their alignments, would that be out of game influence? Or can the unholy deceased relatives of my foes serve as players? In the event I contact an infernal lord, would demonic influence result in a ban on the hydra because of the evil done by said demons? If one of the spirits takes possession of another player in the game, would he then have to be kicked from the hydra for outside knowledge? If a spirit within the hydra is somehow exorcised or ritualistically returned to life in the body of a child's doll, can they still be part of the hydra? Is having an ethereal form necessary, or can lesser spirits participate?
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:27 pm

Post by Mathdino »

1. If the restless dead consist of conscious individuals (i.e. demonstrate sentience/sapience/self-awareness/FREE WILL) then I would argue that each individual restless dead would have to have a MS account and have that account listed.

2. I think it would depend on the gamebreakiness. Like, metadiving their Facebook is obviously not out-of-game influence (cough Ellibereth), but communing with their ancestors could be equivalent to being friends with their sister and asking the sister to look over their shoulder to see their role PM.
If the ancestors are capable of producing a 100% determination of their alignment, I would say that's cheating.
If you're only communing to gather meta data about them, assuming their ancestors are conscious individuals, it would be exactly equivalent to talking to their friends about their personality. Are their friends/ancestors aware of the game? Probably cheating if so.
If they're not conscious, it should be fine, it's equivalent to reading through their facebook.

3. The unholy deceased relatives of your foes would likely count as players if sapient, yes. Have them make MS accounts.

4. If the infernal lord has broken site rules in some way, there's a good argument for banning the hydra on the basis that it makes the site look bad. That said, if everyone's abiding by the rules and not (for example) advocating for the torture of billions in the GD, I see no problem having them hydra.

5. If a spirit takes possession of another player in the game, that's not only out-of-game information, but also outright cheating. I would force replace the whole hydra.

6. If that spirit in the body of a child's doll can still log into the hydra or otherwise communicate with whoever's running the account, I don't see why having a different body changes anything.

7. How would a spirit even exist or show sapience without some kind of ethereal form? There's a certain point of "not-conscious/no free will" that I'd just call spirits equivalent to having a really good mafia AI.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:29 pm

Post by Mathdino »

This brings to mind another interesting question though.

Would a pair of conjoined twins be able to play under the same account, or would they have to make separate accounts and hydra?
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:42 pm

Post by kuribo »

In post 2, Mathdino wrote:This brings to mind another interesting question though.

Would a pair of conjoined twins be able to play under the same account, or would they have to make separate accounts and hydra?
In post 1, Mathdino wrote:1. If the restless dead consist of conscious individuals (i.e. demonstrate sentience/sapience/self-awareness/FREE WILL) then I would argue that each individual restless dead would have to have a MS account and have that account listed.

2. I think it would depend on the gamebreakiness. Like, metadiving their Facebook is obviously not out-of-game influence (cough Ellibereth), but communing with their ancestors could be equivalent to being friends with their sister and asking the sister to look over their shoulder to see their role PM.
If the ancestors are capable of producing a 100% determination of their alignment, I would say that's cheating.
If you're only communing to gather meta data about them, assuming their ancestors are conscious individuals, it would be exactly equivalent to talking to their friends about their personality. Are their friends/ancestors aware of the game? Probably cheating if so.
If they're not conscious, it should be fine, it's equivalent to reading through their facebook.

3. The unholy deceased relatives of your foes would likely count as players if sapient, yes. Have them make MS accounts.

4. If the infernal lord has broken site rules in some way, there's a good argument for banning the hydra on the basis that it makes the site look bad. That said, if everyone's abiding by the rules and not (for example) advocating for the torture of billions in the GD, I see no problem having them hydra.

5. If a spirit takes possession of another player in the game, that's not only out-of-game information, but also outright cheating. I would force replace the whole hydra.

6. If that spirit in the body of a child's doll can still log into the hydra or otherwise communicate with whoever's running the account, I don't see why having a different body changes anything.

7. How would a spirit even exist or show sapience without some kind of ethereal form? There's a certain point of "not-conscious/no free will" that I'd just call spirits equivalent to having a really good mafia AI.
Re: 7. In the event that, say, I encountered a being whose soul I (or another) had stolen and rendered them a spiritless husk. Also it's possible I meant to say corporeal.

I'd say with the conjoined twins, it depends entirely on which direction the two of them are facing. Ie, can they read one another's role PMs or PTs? If they were ordered to hydra instead, what happens if one head (no pun intended) gets banned? Or if they want to join a game that says no hydras? Is it wrong to exclude them because they biologically share a body?
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:45 pm

Post by Mathdino »

7. I don't see how the spiritless husk can possibly help much in playing mafia. Since the husk couldn't play mafia alone, that's just an extra tool you're using. The spirit itself? Depends if the spirit can play mafia. If so, have them make an account and hydra.

Re conjoined twins: Yeah that does all seem pretty unfair. I'm not sure there's an easy answer to this. I'd appreciate it if more mods weighed in.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:06 pm

Post by jjh927 »

"Do not post in the game after you are dead or replaced. Some moderators do allow contentless "Bah!" posts, but you should never reveal information once you are dead. " -from the game-specific rules section of the forum rules.


You should never reveal information once you are dead. Any spirits that communicate game info to you are breaking one interpretation of the site's rules.
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:11 pm

Post by jjh927 »

Also conjoined twins would probably just have to either hydra or not play in the same game, but they'd still be able to play separately so they'd have two accounts.
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:31 pm

Post by kuribo »

In post 5, jjh927 wrote:"Do not post in the game after you are dead or replaced. Some moderators do allow contentless "Bah!" posts, but you should never reveal information once you are dead. " -from the game-specific rules section of the forum rules.


You should never reveal information once you are dead. Any spirits that communicate game info to you are breaking one interpretation of the site's rules.

I feel like this is in the letter of the law and not the spirit.

Obviously it should be moderator discretion if the souls of the once-living should be allowed to play.
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Kuribo's read is foolproof: one night he was high on NyQuil, and he's ancestors reveiled Aureal's alignment to him. - Dessew
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:33 pm

Post by Mathdino »

yeah that leads down a really rough road

if i'm declared clinically dead, does that mean that my slot ingame is dead?

clearly "dead" in those rules refers to the game term "dead" and not one's actual real life status
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:37 pm

Post by jjh927 »

I mean, I guess an argument could be made that if the souls of the dead were capable of coherent thought and communication, able to move, type, etc, then they are technically alive anyway
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:38 pm

Post by jjh927 »

In post 8, Mathdino wrote:yeah that leads down a really rough road

if i'm declared clinically dead, does that mean that my slot ingame is dead?

clearly "dead" in those rules refers to the game term "dead" and not one's actual real life status
No it means you're not allowed to post when you're dead, but someone who takes over your slot after you go inactive because nobody finds your body and everybody's like "oh yeah, mathdino siteflaked what a flakey dinosaur he is" would still be allowed to post because they are not dead
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2018 12:22 am

Post by callforjudgement »

I normally use the phrase "eliminated" in rules rather than "dead" to avoid ambiguity between being dead in the game and dead in real life. (For clarity, I prefer not to kill my players in real life.)
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2018 3:50 am

Post by Alisae »

In post 11, callforjudgement wrote:I normally use the phrase "eliminated" in rules rather than "dead" to avoid ambiguity between being dead in the game and dead in real life. (For clarity, I prefer not to kill my players in real life.)
wait thats a problem?
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Sun May 06, 2018 5:41 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 11, callforjudgement wrote:I prefer not to kill my players in real life.)
Can't thank you enough for this decision.
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