Two Vigclaims

[StefanB]

Since it came up in a game (now over).
You have a player claim 2-shot vig, this gets cc by a player claiming x-shotvig (could be one).
You are in a game that was revieved for beeing normal and balanced by mini-normalreviewers.
Do you lynch in the vigs or outside?

[Harambey180]

I wouldn't lynch the vigs.
Two vigs in a game seems unlikely, so probably one of them really is a vig and the other isn't.
That means that the real vig of the two is bound to shoot the other one at night. The other one, the lying one, is probably anti-Town when they fakeclaim vig.

Without context, I wouldn't really be able to tell which one is the actual vigi but that doesn't matter as long as we keep the two alive, because most likely only one of them is a vig and that one is definitely going to shoot the other.

But that's just my guess.

[StefanB]

I forget somethink to add, the game is confirmed 10:3 if that helps.

[Harambey180]

I forget somethink to add, the game is confirmed 10:3 if that helps.

That helps less than if you told us what day the game was in. For example, day 3 means that the 2-shot vigi could have already used all their shots.
If it's D1 and this scenario happened (which it never does cuz which vigi, or power role in general, claims there role on D1? Let alone a counterclaim), lynch neither.
If it's D3, you could favor pressuring the 2-shot vigi to share with everyone if he still has shots left, and what shots he already fired and who he fired at. Pressuring the 2-shot vigi I prefer over the x-shot vigi because you know how many shots the 2-shot vigi has. Probably on something like day 3, you could first pressure the 2-shot vigi to gain more information and then decide if you still want a lynch to happen. No lynch (between those two) is still better imo after you pressured the two of them.

[StefanB]

D1

[StefanB]

First claim was on L1.

[Harambey180]

OK. D1 and two vigi claims, lynch neither and let the real vig shoot the fakeclaim. It's almost guaranteed at least one of them is a vigi, and the odds of both of them being vigi is assumably small. Though I don't know the setup for the game, but for most setups I'd say it's unlikely there are two vigi's so there's only one truthteller.

Look at it like this: If you do lynch either of the two, what if you have the wrong one? Well yes, now you know the other one is lying and you can get them lynched. But you sacrificed your vigi because if you didn't lynch the vigi, then the vigi would have shot the liar. In other words:
No lynching: Vigi shoots liar. You lose a liar.
Lynching: Lynching the actual vigi: You lose a vigi and a liar afterwards. Lynching the liar: You lose a liar.

So it's either a guaranteed loss of a liar, or a chance of losing just a liar or also the vigi. Let the vigi do their job.

Edit: I don't think it matters much when the role is claimed. Nearly everyone claims a role on L-1 so it's pretty irrelevant to me.

[the worst]

if it's d1 don't they resolve each other via factional kill and/or number of deaths anyway without the drama?

[Creature]

I guess you leave both vigilantes alive, but it's very likely one of them is SK and should be policied later in the game.

[Mulch]

You lynch the counterclaimed vig obviously lol

This isn’t even a question

<if both are scum, you want to lynch in them
<if one is scum, you want to lynch in them (because one could be bulletproof or something)
<if both are town... you STILL want to lynch in them, because the other vig can prove themselves by shooting someone in the nigh
Even BESIDES all this, the odds of one scum (specifically the one getting ccced)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>< any other outcome

[RadiantCowbells]

I guess you leave both vigilantes alive, but it's very likely one of them is SK and should be policied later in the game.

Don't CC the known serial killer obvobv.

[StefanB]

Creature, RC: Confirmed 10:3.
There was no serialkiller.

[Mathdino]

How often does scum fakeclaim vig without some method of protecting themselves from being shot by real vigs?

[mastina]

How often does scum fakeclaim vig without some method of protecting themselves from being shot by real vigs?

Still, you give it a night. Scum are never given bulletproof vests for some reason (I dunno why, it's just not a role mods give scum), and very rarely do they have a doctor. If interference exists, it's probably a roleblocker, which then must be parked on the vig.

If the game has a watcher (a common role combo by the way; vig + watcher is something I've seen in dozens of reviews and hundreds of games), bam, watcher guilties the scum roleblocker. (You might wonder, what stops this from working by just lynching the scum claiming vig? Well aside from the chance that you lynch the town in the two claims, there's also the fact that with said scumlynch, scum lose their incentive to block or even kill the vig. Damage done, vig's conftown, vig is now likely to shoot town. So the scum have no incentive to visit the vig, thus, cannot be caught by the watcher.)

If the game doesn't have a watcher, you still know where the roleblock is, allowing for the town investigative (because if there's an X-shot vig with no watcher I guarantee you the town has an investigative) to move without the interference of said roleblock.

If the scum do have a non-roleblock killstop method and thus the vig kill fails, well, then you simply resolve it D2.

This is a case where you almost never lose anything by waiting a day for resolution, but almost always gain a ton by letting things resolve overnight.

[RadiantCowbells]

Creature, RC: Confirmed 10:3.
There was no serialkiller.

I was poking fun at an off-site game where

Creature didn't CC brainbomb the vig
Transcend claimed he was going to cop me and I correctly predicted him not doing so as scum and won off of not killing him

[StefanB]

To make this clear what would have happen.
Mulch was right.
Scum was odd-night bulletproof even-night strongman.
The roleblock was in odd-nights in townhands (as JK) neighbour to the scum who had it in even nights.
(Last scumrole was watcher)
The game was in danger of nolynch day 1.
A lot of players were thinking about 2 vigs (including the scum who was counterclaimed)
So you can imagine what would happen on day 2.

[Mathdino]

How often does scum fakeclaim vig without some method of protecting themselves from being shot by real vigs?

Still, you give it a night. Scum are never given bulletproof vests for some reason (I dunno why, it's just not a role mods give scum), and very rarely do they have a doctor. If interference exists, it's probably a roleblocker, which then must be parked on the vig.

[snip]

If the scum do have a non-roleblock killstop method and thus the vig kill fails, well, then you simply resolve it D2.

This is a case where you almost never lose anything by waiting a day for resolution, but almost always gain a ton by letting things resolve overnight.

this post is particularly amusing to me given that i did give scum a BP vest and there were 3 roles that could've been RNG'd into roles that could've stopped the kill (roleblocker/jailkeepers)

[RadiantCowbells]

I will give all my scum bulletproof vests in my next game

[StefanB]

For me it was amusing because Mastins answer was directly (unknown to him) directed at the mod of the game.

[GreyICE]

Since it came up in a game (now over).
You have a player claim 2-shot vig, this gets cc by a player claiming x-shotvig (could be one).
You are in a game that was revieved for beeing normal and balanced by mini-normalreviewers.
Do you lynch in the vigs or outside?

Vig doesn't counterclaim during the day phase, question is irrelevant.

[StefanB]

Grey: You get that that realy happened in a game, right?

[Mathdino]

the scenario was that a scum Odd-Night BP claimed 2-shot Vig at L-1

there was a JOAT with a 1-shot Vig, who counterclaimed on the basis that

- roles were NAI by game design. scum could easily have gotten docs, JKs, BPs, etc

- because of this, he assumed scum would only claim vig if they had some means of protection

setup spec heavily indicated the roles were incompatible in the same setup

an argument then ensued over whether the players should lynch elsewhere and allow a cross-shoot to happen, or to just lynch the original vig claim

[BuJaber]

If it happens again I am shooting the first claim everytime.

But the counterclaim shouldn't have happened. I would never CC if I ever roll vig unless I can't shoot that same night. (Go ahead claim vig if you are scum in a game with me).

Basically I can't think of any reason why night vig would ever claim D1. I also don't see any reason why scum would claim vig. Therefore if it happens again one of those is being dumb and since it is dumber for the actual vig to do it the first claimer is almost guaranteed to be scum.

Claiming vig before having a chance to shoot.. my god man.
And scum claiming vig to out vig. Wow you just sacrificed yourself to expose one of the most swingy town roles good job.

[brassherald]

I think that game shows exactly why you lynch the cc'ed person. The first big claim was a bp mafia on odd nights, the other was a JOAT with a 1 shot Vig.

These don't resolve like people think, so lynch the first claim like any other PR. Usually a vig probably wouldn't bother to CC

[GreyICE]

Grey: You get that that realy happened in a game, right?

Then I'm super sad.

The real vig should shoot the fake one at night.

the scenario was that a scum Odd-Night BP claimed 2-shot Vig at L-1

there was a JOAT with a 1-shot Vig, who counterclaimed on the basis that

-

roles were NAI by game design.

scum could easily have gotten docs, JKs, BPs, etc

- because of this, he assumed scum would only claim vig if they had some means of protection

setup spec heavily indicated the roles were incompatible in the same setup

an argument then ensued over whether the players should lynch elsewhere and allow a cross-shoot to happen, or to just lynch the original vig claim

A mod handing vigs to scum wants the town to lose.

That being said, always lynch the main claim over the counterclaim. You'll be right like 95% of the time.