Problems with the Queues

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SirCakez
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Post Post #100  (ISO)  » Sat May 19, 2018 11:30 am

get rekt UT
What happened to the Blitz Queue experiment? From everything I saw it looked like a success, but it was just taken down and it never really got brought back up.
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Ircher
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Post Post #101  (ISO)  » Sat May 19, 2018 11:53 am

I think the number of active players in the player base was the primary issue. I never participated in the Blitz Queue trial, but I think the logic was that due to the speed of the Blitz Queue, it was taking a large number of players away from the other queues, and that was considered an issue.
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Post Post #102  (ISO)  » Sat May 19, 2018 11:54 am

I believe what happened with blitzes was it was hurting the other queues so it was taken down.
Not sure on that though, someone else who was around at the time can probably add more to that.
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Post Post #103  (ISO)  » Sat May 19, 2018 12:00 pm

In post 94, Bicephalous Bob wrote:make all public mechanics normal, merge the open and normal queues

Meh, I think the newbie queue and open queue attract the same kind of players whereas the normal queue attracts different kinds of players. Besides, even public mechanics aside, some games run in the open queue probably do not follow the Normal Guidelines, so.....

That said, combining the Newbie and Open Queue may not be a good idea because of the purpose of the newbie queue, but I still think that would be a better change than combining the normal and open queues.
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Post Post #104  (ISO)  » Sat May 19, 2018 1:04 pm

Is the Tiny Queue still a thing as a Micro sub-queue?

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Post Post #105  (ISO)  » Sat May 19, 2018 2:10 pm

Nexus said he was running it on a Test basis.
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callforjudgement
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Post Post #106  (ISO)  » Sat May 19, 2018 3:03 pm

Possibly the best option here is to drop some Tinies into the Open rotation (if there's a way to handle the resulting mod experience issues, e.g. by allowing them to run three in a row). Vengeful 5p used to be there, after all.

I think there should probably be (some/more) Micros in the Open rotation too; the Micro queue doesn't get enough of them (often forcing me to spend time modding rather than playing to balance the queue in question), whereas the Open queue doesn't have enough variety, and that might help with both issues. Again, you could let the same mod run two in a row in order to handle mod experience isseus.
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Post Post #107  (ISO)  » Sat May 19, 2018 3:06 pm

Tbh for the Open Queue, I would like to see what coj suggested for tiny’s and a dedicated queue for White Flag or Cop 13ers or Vig10ers
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Post Post #108  (ISO)  » Sat May 19, 2018 3:07 pm

Like Tiny Queue in the Open Queue for Lovers Mafia?
That would get a lot of attention.
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Post Post #109  (ISO)  » Sat May 19, 2018 3:09 pm

Also a dedicated White Flag queue would be fun and might get some older and more experienced people who don’t normally in for opens to in to a White Flag game.
I would in for a white flag game if it had its own dedicated queue every now and then.
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callforjudgement
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Post Post #110  (ISO)  » Sat May 19, 2018 3:38 pm

Surely just having White Flag into the Open rotation would guarantee it came up now and again? If you have a queue just for one setup it'll take a while to fill after people start getting bored of it (Newbie is a special case here).
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Post Post #111  (ISO)  » Sat May 19, 2018 3:44 pm

I mean, this is all in theory because I doubt the Open or Micro Queues will actually be substantially changed as they are. But

Open Queue:
- Separate multiball queue (so these stop holding up the queue)
- Separate all-vanilla or mostly-vanilla setups queue (White Flag, Red Flag, Black Flag, Cop 13er, etc)
- The rest (Stack the Deck, Pick Your Power, Tit for Tat, newer setups)

Micro Queue:
- Separate micro open AND normal queue (these fill faster than most)
- Separate tiny queue (this was successful, I see no reason to bury a fast-filling 5p game behind 5 other games)
- The rest (themes)

Ircher
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Post Post #112  (ISO)  » Sat May 19, 2018 3:46 pm

Isn't part of the problem that we have too many queues as-is, and there is not enough moderators (and players) around in general? Making new queues will compound that problem.
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Post Post #113  (ISO)  » Sat May 19, 2018 3:51 pm

im really confused i thought people were just complaining there were too many queues
probably, but not necessarily

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Post Post #114  (ISO)  » Sat May 19, 2018 3:53 pm

I disagree that a bunch of people coming up with Large Themes all at once is really a problem.

There are countless examples of games sitting around in queue, and the moment they get pulled, another game fills within 2 or 3 days. Much of the time, queued games are not what people want to play, and there's no way to really make that clear when the listmod team doesn't really play many games themselves.

The Open Queue was held up for weeks with two multiball games in queue. Given that the mods control which setups newbie mods are allowed to run, this is silly. New mods should not be expected to know what setups will be most popular, and are often given 3 bad choices. 2 multiball games should not be allowed in a row. If they are, queue them up separately from singleball.

And the Micro Queue was held up by a multiball game and a blitz setup that people didn't really wanna play. This was mitigated by the fact that a Tiny Queue allowed people to bypass those games and fill games despite the holdup.

That's beside the fact that my games have always filled relatively quickly and in general face delay to getting permissions to start.

There's demand for games, both modside and playerside. Just not the games that are in queue all the time.

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Post Post #115  (ISO)  » Sat May 19, 2018 3:57 pm

I think the delay in getting permission to start is because of two things: 1) The listmod needs to verify the player list and 2) I don't think some of the listmods update the queue as much on the weekends, which I think is understandable.
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Post Post #116  (ISO)  » Sat May 19, 2018 3:59 pm

enable more games to be open for sign-ups at a time, and when there are more than these number of games ready to run, enforce differentiation of setup/theme across setups up currently in sign-ups, determining which of 2+ similar setups are allowed in signups first randomly
probably, but not necessarily

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Post Post #117  (ISO)  » Sat May 19, 2018 4:27 pm

#bringback2of4

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Post Post #118  (ISO)  » Sat May 19, 2018 4:32 pm

maybe even encourage game moderators to specify when signing up to mod what makes their game distinctive from a normal. use that to guide differentiation as well as to help players choose which games to sign up to.
probably, but not necessarily

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Post Post #119  (ISO)  » Sat May 19, 2018 4:39 pm

I second having someone in charge of approving/fixing open setups, we have tons of great suggestions and fixes but there’s no clear system to remove/add setups.

If there were an official Open Setup Review group I’d join. I’m too flaky to open mod but I can always give a minute to look at setups.

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Post Post #120  (ISO)  » Sat May 19, 2018 5:10 pm

We have a lot of people willing to do shit, if someone could just take lead and coordinate we could do seriously improve this site very quickly.

I also believe there is a lot of power in giving people “titles” even if they’re not publicly shown, but just being like “x I am designating you an official wiki editor” or whatever. I think the issue now is people feel powerless, let’s give people power.

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Post Post #121  (ISO)  » Sat May 19, 2018 5:27 pm

In post 115, Ircher wrote:I don't think some of the listmods update the queue as much on the weekends, which I think is understandable.


Something being logistically reasonable given the current setup, and yet still undesirable can be true.

I would, with very rare occasion, put any blame on any of the listmods for their activity. It's a mostly thankless volunteer job that takes a lot of consistent work. We can still want better than we expect of 1 reasonable person doing it? The question is how to get there.
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Post Post #122  (ISO)  » Sat May 19, 2018 5:30 pm

In post 74, Mathdino wrote:I've already volunteered for what's in my skillset. Wiki group, NRG, open setup review, etc. I have a role PM generator in the works that's on hold because I still don't know what "standard" role PMs should look like.

I would thoroughly enjoy a thread dedicated to this.

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Post Post #123  (ISO)  » Sat May 19, 2018 5:38 pm

the role pm generator? or for volunteering in general?
probably, but not necessarily

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Post Post #124  (ISO)  » Sat May 19, 2018 5:39 pm

In post 123, Psyche wrote:the role pm generator? or for volunteering in general?

Both actually.

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