Problems with the Queues

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Ankamius
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Post Post #150  (ISO)  » Sun May 20, 2018 2:23 pm

I'd be willing to help with busywork of some kind, I'm just not quite sure what I'd be able to help with.
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Post Post #151  (ISO)  » Sun May 20, 2018 2:26 pm

In post 149, Micc wrote:So I’ll ask again, how does someone with no coding experience get involved with improving this site? I’ve got about 30 minutes a day that I’d love to deticate to something, I’m just waiting for someone to ask for the help.

Just imagine if people like this were allowed to literally just count /ins in a queue, update the thread, and sitechat whatever listmod is online to give mod permissions and start the game

What reck isn't getting is that
Yes, it's a thankless volunteer job

Yet so many people are volunteering for bits and pieces of it and are getting the cold shoulder from the admin
While the thankless volunteers overwhelm themselves and fail to keep things fully operational

I have sympathy for the listmods, I'm not blaming THEM
I'm blaming the idea of making them do all the work when the team as it's currently structured is consistently failing at that

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Post Post #152  (ISO)  » Sun May 20, 2018 2:46 pm

I’d even be happy to collaborate with game mods whose strengths are in game design but who struggle at running games because I am very much the other way around. This goes more towards improving the quality of games on site, but it’s an improvement nonetheless.

But yeah...archiving, updating queues, fixing registration issues, and probably a whole lot more are all busy work that ends up in the hands of the listmods that I, and many other members of the community, would be willing to help with.
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Post Post #153  (ISO)  » Sun May 20, 2018 4:47 pm

In post 142, xRECKONERx wrote:I'll also point out there are a lot of people here complaining who I haven't seen apply for open positions so /shrug
I apply for everything I feel qualified for and even some things I feel I'm not, but which I am at least marginally possibly close to being in the zone of qualifying. I greatly encourage this exact mindset in others, too.

That having been said--many users have pointed out both that they have applied only to not hear back...
...Or that they didn't even know they COULD apply, because the application process was too obscure.

And while many applications have some form of initial visibility, they rapidly fall out of sight. Some way of permanently increasing visibility for applications would do a long way to help there, but how that'd be accomplished, I don't have any specific idea.
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Post Post #154  (ISO)  » Sun May 20, 2018 4:50 pm

In post 149, Micc wrote:I had full intentions on applying to the next listmod opening...and then an opening got filled without an application process.
There's this as well. Every time there's been a listmod application I've applied, but the shift in positions between Micros and Normals was never given an application process, and there was never really a reason given for why, either; a level of transparency for the process there would go a long way to help people, too.
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Post Post #155  (ISO)  » Sun May 20, 2018 6:22 pm

In post 149, Micc wrote:I’ve had an offer to help judge scummies be completely ignored.
Zor didn’t respond to anyone’s pms at the time he just picked a bunch of people
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Post Post #156  (ISO)  » Sun May 20, 2018 6:28 pm

Well, for what it’s worth that was a year or two back not this most recent spring.
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Post Post #157  (ISO)  » Sun May 20, 2018 6:57 pm

also I doubt Elli was told anything about the old mods for TM or who they were
but I doubt he would have put you on the mod team for TM2018 cause I don't think he knows who you are.
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Post Post #158  (ISO)  » Sun May 20, 2018 7:11 pm

I think that something to consider (not just queue-side, but site-wide) is that from my experience, there are a lot of moving parts and things that get discussed, and some policies/structures that are actively outdated or undesirable get buried in the mix.

In post 77, Mathdino wrote:I would point out this thread as a fantastic example of engagement with the community, transparency, and caring about the site going in the right direction.

This is a good thing to bring up, and it seems like a lot of people agree that it's a good idea that would help with the aforementioned issue.

I think that one of the most enduring issues that people have with the moderation team is transparency. A thread like this could also serve as a visible and open feedback pipeline which could potentially be helpful.

In post 142, xRECKONERx wrote:Automated sign ups is the only thing that will fix the queue issues (or I guess one could argue more reliable listmods... But I don't think people should expect someone to spend every day doing their job and listmodding)

Grain of salt, etc. because I don't know the ins and outs of what listmodding actually entails, but perhaps something to think about rather than automated signups would be something to make it more visible when a game has been filled to the mod (perhaps there can be some structure where a game mod can passively "alert" a listmod to a filled game if they want greater expedience, similar to a report on a post).

As a mod I know that sometimes I want to browse the site without putting any active thought into mod duties and maybe that system would make it easier for someone to just bang a game out as soon as they know it fills and be done with it.

In post 2, Mathdino wrote:- Assistants can be brought in to do the busywork of the queues, like tracking sign-ups and giving mod permissions. Or running NRG or Open Setups.

Taking on more people interested in helping out in more logistical-oriented roles seems like a good idea. And many people who want to take on those burdens seem to be frustrated that we're not giving them the space and agency to do so. I hope that we can address this.
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Post Post #159  (ISO)  » Sun May 20, 2018 7:20 pm

One last thing I want to say:

I don't want to speak directly for any other mods but while it may not seem to you that the moderation team cares about the recruitment and retention problems of the site, I want to assure you that we do. I know you (Mathdino) are not accusing us of not caring (but merely that we're not actively showing it enough) but there are a lot of frustrations here, and this is an issue that we do talk about a lot backstage.

I don't want this sentiment to overshadow steps towards productive discussion but please keep in mind that all of us volunteered to become mods because we love and care about the site. A lot of times I think that gets lost when parts of the userbase and the moderation team disagree but I'd like to think that in the grand scheme of things we all want the site to be good and healthy.
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Post Post #160  (ISO)  » Sun May 20, 2018 9:31 pm

disclaimer: im just a social mod so this is partially me speaking having zero intricate involvement in some of the backstage processes, but having seen enough of them that some of my stances from when i wasn't backstage have changed

In post 153, mastina wrote:
In post 142, xRECKONERx wrote:I'll also point out there are a lot of people here complaining who I haven't seen apply for open positions so /shrug
I apply for everything I feel qualified for and even some things I feel I'm not, but which I am at least marginally possibly close to being in the zone of qualifying. I greatly encourage this exact mindset in others, too.

That having been said--many users have pointed out both that they have applied only to not hear back...
...Or that they didn't even know they COULD apply, because the application process was too obscure.

And while many applications have some form of initial visibility, they rapidly fall out of sight. Some way of permanently increasing visibility for applications would do a long way to help there, but how that'd be accomplished, I don't have any specific idea.

announcements stay open until they are filled or until a suitable solution is found in the backstage with some shuffling to find the right spots for people

if a goddamned global announcement doesn't do the trick, i dont know how we can make it less "obscure"
open to hearing suggestions

and echoing EP's thoughts: there's definitely a concern and focus on user retention
kison has a small team of people who have focused on it and review analytics reports each month
a lot of behind-the-scenes changes (mostly from SEO) have been enacted by Kison based on these reports
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Post Post #161  (ISO)  » Sun May 20, 2018 9:52 pm

open to hearing suggestions

pull back the curtain
make hidden forums for volunteer groups that don't need to be hidden public, near or within the administration forum category, and organize these hidden subforums so that people can pop in, see what's being done or needs to be done, help out, and leave without going through any elaborate ritual or explicit role designation except where one is absolutely necessary
shed the fear of letting scummers see works in progress
this makes the whole process of site contribution more fluid, and through its relative transparency/publicity it makes the work less thankless too
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Post Post #162  (ISO)  » Sun May 20, 2018 9:59 pm

also the practice of handing everything off to backstage groups and committees is what fuels a lot of (supposedly uninformed) dissatisfaction with how the site is run and being improved

i really, really, really think this is the core cultural issue that's killing our site
everything else is just an outgrowth of it
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Post Post #163  (ISO)  » Wed May 23, 2018 11:50 am

In post 142, xRECKONERx wrote:Automated sign ups is the only thing that will fix the queue issues (or I guess one could argue more reliable listmods... But I don't think people should expect someone to spend every day doing their job and listmodding)

I'll also point out there are a lot of people here complaining who I haven't seen apply for open positions so /shrug

I've been thinking about extending psyches Modbot to be able to do this. My web Dev skills are slim to none but it is worth a try.

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Post Post #164  (ISO)  » Wed May 23, 2018 11:50 am

There's a lot of conversations related to that though that I am not 100% sure where to start

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Post Post #165  (ISO)  » Wed May 23, 2018 11:54 am

In post 75, xRECKONERx wrote:then if those people want to volunteer, the coding team is literally always looking for more people to help out.

presenting all these problems and going "this should totally be done" isn't really helping or proposing a solution

I also have thoughts on this.

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Post Post #166  (ISO)  » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:00 am

The mini theme queue, which I legitimately didn't check that often before it's kind of an issue, I think. I don't check usually because games just sit there forever whether they fill up or not. We've got TGP's game, and nothing against him at all, but it's been on there for 25 days and has 4 of 13 signups.

It's supposed to be at TBone's discretion to keep games on there longer, but who are we kidding? If he wants to keep games open despite having one sign up a week, I don't understand why we are limiting the queue to two games in signups at a time.

I doubt I'll even bother designing a second mini theme game if this is what the queue is like.
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Post Post #167  (ISO)  » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:04 am

I suppose a mod response from someone other than UT (whose queue has 0 critiques) or Aristophanes (who isn't in a position to change anything) was a bit of a pipe dream.

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Post Post #168  (ISO)  » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:08 am

In post 167, Mathdino wrote:I suppose a mod response from someone other than UT (whose queue has 0 critiques) or Aristophanes (who isn't in a position to change anything) was a bit of a pipe dream.


There are issues of transparency still, but based on the whispers I've heard, I assure you some points are being taken seriously.
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Post Post #169  (ISO)  » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:36 am

whispers
how nice
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Post Post #170  (ISO)  » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:43 am

The issue with things being done behind closed doors is that the average user doesn't know that things are being done. Even some sort of mod coming here and saying "we hear you, we are working on it" would be better than the absolute silence we've had. I don't think it's asking much to get that much.
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Post Post #171  (ISO)  » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:54 am

In post 170, brassherald wrote:The issue with things being done behind closed doors is that the average user doesn't know that things are being done. Even some sort of mod coming here and saying "we hear you, we are working on it" would be better than the absolute silence we've had. I don't think it's asking much to get that much.


UT made a pretty good response, IMO. I'm not sure what more you are looking for.

We hear what is being said, and we are discussing changes/improvements.
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Post Post #172  (ISO)  » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:06 am

In post 168, chamber wrote:the whispers I've heard

Image
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Post Post #173  (ISO)  » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:16 am

That got me to laugh out loud.
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Post Post #174  (ISO)  » Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:24 pm

In post 171, PenguinPower wrote:
In post 170, brassherald wrote:The issue with things being done behind closed doors is that the average user doesn't know that things are being done. Even some sort of mod coming here and saying "we hear you, we are working on it" would be better than the absolute silence we've had. I don't think it's asking much to get that much.


UT made a pretty good response, IMO. I'm not sure what more you are looking for.

We hear what is being said, and we are discussing changes/improvements.

Why does this sort of discussion need to happen behind closed doors? Is sensitive information being exchanged? Zoraster’s account password accidentally slip out?
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