How much commitment do we require?

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MichelSableheart
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Post Post #25  (ISO)  » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:01 am

I'm unsure to what extend I find it desirable that time requirements vary based on playerlist, in particular for normal games, which in theory should be relatively interchangeable. The quality of the game can vary based on mod and players, sure, so the question whether you want to sign up probably should vary based on playerlist. However, it seems to me that the question whether you can (afford to) sign up for a normal game should ideally be independent of playerlist, in my opinion.

@callforjudgement: What about players who haven't disappeared, but who don't meet the desired activity requirements either? Games can come to a crashing halt when everyone is waiting for a player who regularly gets prodded. On the other hand, I've also seen revolving door games, where a mod strictly enforcing activity requirements led to replacement after replacement.
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Post Post #26  (ISO)  » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:18 pm

As a mod there's not much you can do except change your rules for next game; sticking to the rules as written is fairly important. That's how my Micro activity rules ended up so elaborate.
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Post Post #27  (ISO)  » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:24 pm

@Michel - When you use the word 'normal' are you referring strictly to normal games in the Normal Queue/New York Forum?
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Post Post #28  (ISO)  » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:40 pm

correct.
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Post Post #29  (ISO)  » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:04 pm

I dunno if you're aware of this, but mafiascum has the highest rate of replacement of any mafia forum. It also has the highest rate of multigaming. Feels a little bit silly to talk about activity requirements.
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Post Post #30  (ISO)  » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:22 pm

Isn't it also the 'slowest' mafia forum?
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MichelSableheart
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Post Post #31  (ISO)  » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:03 am

nancy wrote:I dunno if you're aware of this, but mafiascum has the highest rate of replacement of any mafia forum. It also has the highest rate of multigaming. Feels a little bit silly to talk about activity requirements.
Strongly disagree here. The fact that mafiascum has such a high replacement rate implies to me that either games on this forum require more commitment then some people can give, or that players are regularly signing up for more games then they can handle.

If it's the first, then that is something that needs to be discussed, identified, and changed. Our long days and slow pace should make this site ideal for players who can't afford to set aside significant amounts of time in a short period, but who can set aside a bit of time each day over a longer period. If that is what we want from our games, then we should make sure that such players are capable of playing our games, so that they won't have to replace out. A discussion of how much time should be enough to play is a pertinent part of getting to such a situation. In my opinion, a lack of awareness of whether the activity requirements we set are realistic for the games we play is a major cause of the high number of replacements in our games. We tell players "don't worry, you'll be fine, all you have to do is post enough to not be prodded" and then expect those players to keep up with others who can spend hours in a back and forth.

If it's the second, then a discussion of activity requirements is also very pertinent. It makes players better aware of the amount of time required for a single game, and therefore better capable of avoiding the situation where they bite off more then they can chew. Besides, there is a large difference between "you're already signed up for 3 games, are you sure you can handle a fourth?" and "the games you're signed up for should take you about 4.5 hours each day. Are you sure you can afford to go up to 6 hours?"
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Post Post #32  (ISO)  » Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:29 am

In post 30, Ankamius wrote:Isn't it also the 'slowest' mafia forum?

Idts, I would say it's on the faster side if anything, definitely the fastest long phase site that I know.
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Post Post #33  (ISO)  » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:00 am

Quoting as it is related:

In Planned Changes: Newbie Game Deadlines, post 185, Zachrulez wrote:I remember most of my games dragging to deadline. Days that ended quickly were the exception rather than the rule.

As it is with 7 day deadlines you are getting prodded within a day of inactivity. When the site reaches the point where it expects you to post not only every day but multiple times every day it's reached the point where I can't possibly commit to playing another game ever again.
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Post Post #34  (ISO)  » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:53 am

There was more I meant to say in that thread but didn't. It's probably worth saying that through my mafia career beginning to end we went from no standard deadlines to three weeks, and then finally down to about 2. My annoyance with this shift to 7 day deadlines is that the people making it acknowledge it will lower the average deadline, but kind of evaded the idea that the new standard deadline will become 7 days. I've been around long enough to know that is exactly what will happen with the new newbie deadline. I'm not aiming to complain about a time past here just looking to point out that we once had a time where there were no standard deadlines and they were imposed only when the mods felt the game needed them. (Stalled discussion, no movement in a game, ect.) Then we went to 3 week deadlines (The site adopted that as standard shortly after the newbie game deadline was outright set to 3 weeks. The important thing I didn't say in the above post was that that era of the site was the best for a player like me. The prod timer was very friendly. It didn't hit you when you unplugged from the game on the weekend or for a day or two. When the site switched to 2 weeks... again following the change in the newbie deadline weekend considerations started going away. The time commitment got shorter but the time you were expected to invest in that shorter period of time got greater. Frankly I did the best at mafia the better I was able to emotionally disconnect with the game. I played the worst when I wasn't able to do that. With shorter deadlines and shorter prod timers you're pretty much expected to be constantly invested in the game and never really able to unplug from the game and take time off for a breather to calm from pressure, or an abusive poster... or someone that just grates you.

I'm not even trying to pretend the site isn't moving away from my preferences. I'm just saying as a player I would like to be able to go a day or two every now and then without having to eat a prod for not posting. That's pretty much impossible with 2 week deadlines let alone 1. Moderators were getting hostile to no weekend posting even back on two week deadlines. (Usually a time some people have other things going on.) Also as a player when players post I would like for them to actually have something worthwhile to say. This whole hyperposting argument thing kind of works into that. The issue being complained about is that some players (Not looking to single anyone out.) would manage to post so much while saying so little. As a player you have to read through that and it's not enjoyable at all. Good players would not expect a reasonable player to have to do that. That's the other reason I like it being okay to go a spell of time without posting. Sometimes you just don't have anything to say until other people have had a chance to say something. As a player I'm not interested in your 20th straight post in a game day. I'm interested in the player I haven't heard from in 2 days. I want to know where they weigh in on things. Someone who posts 50 times a day. I know where they stand... I dunno does that make any sense?

Probably would have helped if I said all this in the other thread. Sorry for rambling on here. The main point is that even though the time requirement is shorter overall with shorter deadlines, it requires much more of an activity commitment within that shorter amount of time with far less down time possible which makes it a lot easier to get wound up without really being able to wind yourself down from all of that. (After all there's no time for that. Gotta post again in 4 hours! Hope I've put some thought into what that post will contain!)

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