Fair critique. I really didn't imagine that the poll would be a good representation of the site as a whole. :3In post 24, Ircher wrote:I'm just going to note that non-response bias, especially from newbies and very old people (in terms of site experience, not age) is going to be a thing, and it is unlikely this poll will end up being representative.
Shorter deadlines question for the community
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I think there are different newbies with different time preferences. I mean there are newbies in other communities who play 12 hour day games and they love it.
But in a nutshell, I think longer deadlines help newbies to understand the game better and I think with MS system that allows players to choose which queue they want to start playing from, the dedicated queue for newbies should host games that has at least a week-long day phases.False tears bring pain to those around you
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Mods can add extra time during weekends/special occasionsFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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I might be willing to play a game with deadlines shorter than 14 days.
I wouldn't be willing to play a game with deadlinesmuchshorter than 14 days, though. The way that days can develop over time and give out more information over time is one of the key advantages of this site.scum· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·town- Inferno390
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See, I’m really comfortable with the game length right now.
And what everyone seeems to be forgetting in their attept to “cater to the next generation” is that they are really fricking with the meta of the established players of this site.
10 days I’m comfortable with. I’d prefer 11-12 just so we could give 2 day nights and have one game cycle go approximately 2 weeks.
But seven days seems really short. I can hardly imagine good town development happening within that frame.
Besides that, I find it really falling that the site is now falling to the low of changing site meta to try and convince newbies who may or may not stay anyways to keep playing.
Which is not to say that we shouldn’t at least try to make newbies feel welcome. But there’s no way we can reasonably give everyone exactly what they want, and focusing on the people who don’t have a commitment to the site while forcing the regulars to change to them is foolish. There’s a two way street here that both sides have to use. Newbies have to be willing to adapt to us as much as we have to be willing to adapt to them. Which is not what I’m seeing. What I’m seeing is “Oh, the newbies are complaining about the site, so we’re gonna make everyone else change to fit them.” Which is not healthy for the site at all."Do I have permission to....refute some of the bs that Inferno just spewed out?"--TywinL
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I really really think newbie games should have at least one-week long day phases personally. Players who prefer blitz are not "newbies". Blitz newbie games are a bad idea. Having shorter games is not about making newbies interested, It's about allowing a certain type of players who prefer shorter games and have free time to also use the platform. In other words, allowing a queue with shorter deadline games won't make players change to adapt, It will just allow the variety.
Also Blitz game is already allowed on MS. I was just saying as a way to increase this site player base - allowing blitz queue to exist might help a lot cause there are so many communities and mafia cultures that prefer shorter deadline games and such people will never play on ms because they know ms as a site that hosts 2 weeks, day phases games.False tears bring pain to those around you
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I played at MS for 2 years more or less and played on other communities and heard people talking about MS there. If you want an outside view about why people avoid playing on MS, that's the first thing that one can hear from other mafia players out of MS.False tears bring pain to those around you
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I agree with others that 10 feels about right. Though I'm increasingly fond of variable deadlines e.g. "[number of living players] days" that naturally lead to shorter days as the game cools off. I've never seen a lylo that actually needed 14 or even 7 days to sort out.“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,and the other kind,’ and those whodon’tsay. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs- Micc
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Players and moderators are still welcome to run/sign up for games that follow their preferences outside of the Newbie Queue. But for the sake of consistency there is no variation in the Newbie Queue. The change to 10 days for Day 1 and 7 for other day phases is a compromise between players who want deadlines at 4-7 days and players who want them at 14 days. The site isn't going to grow by catering to just one side or the other. In fact there's about 6 years worth of evidence showing that catering only to 14 day deadline players is a road to decline.In post 30, Inferno390 wrote:See, I’m really comfortable with the game length right now.
And what everyone seeems to be forgetting in their attept to “cater to the next generation” is that they are really fricking with the meta of the established players of this site.
10 days I’m comfortable with. I’d prefer 11-12 just so we could give 2 day nights and have one game cycle go approximately 2 weeks.
But seven days seems really short. I can hardly imagine good town development happening within that frame.
Besides that, I find it really falling that the site is now falling to the low of changing site meta to try and convince newbies who may or may not stay anyways to keep playing.
Which is not to say that we shouldn’t at least try to make newbies feel welcome. But there’s no way we can reasonably give everyone exactly what they want, and focusing on the people who don’t have a commitment to the site while forcing the regulars to change to them is foolish. There’s a two way street here that both sides have to use. Newbies have to be willing to adapt to us as much as we have to be willing to adapt to them. Which is not what I’m seeing. What I’m seeing is “Oh, the newbies are complaining about the site, so we’re gonna make everyone else change to fit them.” Which is not healthy for the site at all."To hide a tree, use a forest" -Ninja Boy Hideo- chamber
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Uh... you guys do know that youareallowed to run ultrashort game phases here, right?My favorite site mod is Zor Tester.
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The difficulty is trying to find a moderator who has enough time, I think.
I can see the demand, but am unlikely to run a short-phase game simply because I doubt I could do things like flips and vote counts quickly enough to make a game going at that sort of speed playable.scum· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·town- Alisae
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High demand for them but no supplyIn post 40, FakeGod wrote:Uh... you guys do know that youareallowed to run ultrashort game phases here, right?| here.GTKAS- Alisae
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A follow upIn post 42, Alisae wrote:
High demand for them but no supplyIn post 40, FakeGod wrote:Uh... you guys do know that youareallowed to run ultrashort game phases here, right?
Like, I look at this (and a lot of posts of this nature) and think those posters who are posting this have no idea whats going on on the site for the past year.
So because they’re so stuck in the fucking past they think “oh well someone can run them.”
A. But no one is offering it, and if they are offering it, its once in a blue moon, not a consistent offer.
B. The people who are asking for shorter deadlines are not people who want to mod shorter deadlines, they are people who want to play shorter deadlines. They are players. They want to play. They are most likely new to the community as well so they don’t know who to ask to mod shorter deadline games.
Like FG, if I asked you to mod a game with shorter deadlines would you do it?
I really don’t think you would but prove me wrong.
And if I asked Hito, mastina, or V to do it, they would probably tell me no as well.
Like please stop using this shitty excuse to not adapt to change.
Can you run these games with shorter deadlines?
Yes you can sure. You can say you can do something as much as you fucking want.
Is anyone going to actually do so?
Fuck no.| here.GTKAS- chamber
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I like to think my A and B points were helpful but I’m venting because I hate the fact it feels like the same people keep on posting “You want short deadlines, go run them yourself. Otherwise go play somewhere else”
Like, am I fucked up in the head, or does MS belong to a bunch of dinosaurs that want the site to die? Asking for a friend.
I’m personally leaning towards me being fucked up in the head (because I have my own issues), but a friend wants to know.| here.GTKAS- AnonymousGhost
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The players who want to play games with shorter deadlinesprobablyhave a significant newbie - as in new to the site, not new to the game necessarily - population inside of it. Related to the newness and supplying that mod demand for shorter deadlines, I have this to say:
Maybe the players who want shorter deadlinescan'tbe mods because they're new to the site and one of the requirements to mod your first time game is be a site member for three months. The other is to run your first time game (unless you have off-site experience) in either the Open Queue or the Normal Queue - the first you could probably mod a game with shorter deadlines and maybe the second, but I'm currently unaware if Normal Games have to have the two week day phase deadline.
Obviously if "newbies" join the site with the expectation of shorter deadlines, but no one's offering, they might've been inclined to mod one, but discovered that they couldn't because they're "too young" (aka their account's age).- Alisae
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Also another point.
I’m not 100% sure on this, but I feel like its silently agreed that normals and opens have to have long deadlines.
This could potentially make the hurdle of modding new games for newbies who don’t want to mod games that long extremely difficult?
Unless PP or Implo say they’re ok with blitz deadline games in their queues, then ok maybe thats a bit more friendly to newer mods.| here.GTKAS- AnonymousGhost
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To new players to the site who would like games with shorter deadlines:
Since there seems to be a demand but no supply for GwSD (games with shorter deadlines), would you yourselves mod with shorter deadlines?- FakeGod
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I assure you I haven't been posting “You want short deadlines, go run them yourself. Otherwise go play somewhere else”, Alisae.
I mean I could run shorter phased games, and maybe they will attract a bunch of players who enjoy shorter phases to the site... but why should I?
Shorter phased games are something I enjoy once in a blue moon, not all the time.My favorite site mod is Zor Tester.
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