Shorter deadlines question for the community

This forum is for discussion related to the game.

Would you play a game with shorter deadlines (less than the two week average)?

Yes.
36
55%
No.
21
32%
Presently? Yes, I'd play a game with shorter deadlines, but not in the future.
3
5%
Presently? No, I wouldn't play a game with shorter deadlines, but definitely in the future.
1
2%
Maybe. Please comment!
4
6%
Other. Please comment!
1
2%
 
Total votes : 66

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Post Post #25  (ISO)  » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:12 pm

In post 24, Ircher wrote:I'm just going to note that non-response bias, especially from newbies and very old people (in terms of site experience, not age) is going to be a thing, and it is unlikely this poll will end up being representative.


Fair critique. I really didn't imagine that the poll would be a good representation of the site as a whole. :3
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Post Post #26  (ISO)  » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:24 pm

I think there are different newbies with different time preferences. I mean there are newbies in other communities who play 12 hour day games and they love it.

But in a nutshell, I think longer deadlines help newbies to understand the game better and I think with MS system that allows players to choose which queue they want to start playing from, the dedicated queue for newbies should host games that has at least a week-long day phases.
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Post Post #27  (ISO)  » Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:24 pm

i really don't like 24 hour nightphases because i have regular weekend v/la where i don't really have access for more than 24 hours at a time

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Post Post #28  (ISO)  » Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:06 pm

Mods can add extra time during weekends/special occasions
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Post Post #29  (ISO)  » Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:41 pm

I might be willing to play a game with deadlines shorter than 14 days.

I wouldn't be willing to play a game with deadlines much shorter than 14 days, though. The way that days can develop over time and give out more information over time is one of the key advantages of this site.
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Post Post #30  (ISO)  » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:50 am

See, I’m really comfortable with the game length right now.
And what everyone seeems to be forgetting in their attept to “cater to the next generation” is that they are really fricking with the meta of the established players of this site.
10 days I’m comfortable with. I’d prefer 11-12 just so we could give 2 day nights and have one game cycle go approximately 2 weeks.
But seven days seems really short. I can hardly imagine good town development happening within that frame.
Besides that, I find it really falling that the site is now falling to the low of changing site meta to try and convince newbies who may or may not stay anyways to keep playing.
Which is not to say that we shouldn’t at least try to make newbies feel welcome. But there’s no way we can reasonably give everyone exactly what they want, and focusing on the people who don’t have a commitment to the site while forcing the regulars to change to them is foolish. There’s a two way street here that both sides have to use. Newbies have to be willing to adapt to us as much as we have to be willing to adapt to them. Which is not what I’m seeing. What I’m seeing is “Oh, the newbies are complaining about the site, so we’re gonna make everyone else change to fit them.” Which is not healthy for the site at all.
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Post Post #31  (ISO)  » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:26 am

I think very few people have suggested that? I don't think anyone in a position of authority has.
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Post Post #32  (ISO)  » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:02 am

I really really think newbie games should have at least one-week long day phases personally. Players who prefer blitz are not "newbies". Blitz newbie games are a bad idea. Having shorter games is not about making newbies interested, It's about allowing a certain type of players who prefer shorter games and have free time to also use the platform. In other words, allowing a queue with shorter deadline games won't make players change to adapt, It will just allow the variety.

Also Blitz game is already allowed on MS. I was just saying as a way to increase this site player base - allowing blitz queue to exist might help a lot cause there are so many communities and mafia cultures that prefer shorter deadline games and such people will never play on ms because they know ms as a site that hosts 2 weeks, day phases games.
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Post Post #33  (ISO)  » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:04 am

I played at MS for 2 years more or less and played on other communities and heard people talking about MS there. If you want an outside view about why people avoid playing on MS, that's the first thing that one can hear from other mafia players out of MS.
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Post Post #34  (ISO)  » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:46 am

120/48 or 72/24 is nice, 96/24 is unorthodox but also pcool

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Post Post #35  (ISO)  » Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:16 pm

I like the pressure of a deadline, I think it helps gameplay. On the other hand it's hard when someone goes V/LA with less time before deadline. I like 10-14 day deadlines, but I would probably play shorter games just as much

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Post Post #36  (ISO)  » Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:10 pm

I agree with others that 10 feels about right. Though I'm increasingly fond of variable deadlines e.g. "[number of living players] days" that naturally lead to shorter days as the game cools off. I've never seen a lylo that actually needed 14 or even 7 days to sort out.
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Post Post #37  (ISO)  » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:04 am

In post 30, Inferno390 wrote:See, I’m really comfortable with the game length right now.
And what everyone seeems to be forgetting in their attept to “cater to the next generation” is that they are really fricking with the meta of the established players of this site.
10 days I’m comfortable with. I’d prefer 11-12 just so we could give 2 day nights and have one game cycle go approximately 2 weeks.
But seven days seems really short. I can hardly imagine good town development happening within that frame.
Besides that, I find it really falling that the site is now falling to the low of changing site meta to try and convince newbies who may or may not stay anyways to keep playing.
Which is not to say that we shouldn’t at least try to make newbies feel welcome. But there’s no way we can reasonably give everyone exactly what they want, and focusing on the people who don’t have a commitment to the site while forcing the regulars to change to them is foolish. There’s a two way street here that both sides have to use. Newbies have to be willing to adapt to us as much as we have to be willing to adapt to them. Which is not what I’m seeing. What I’m seeing is “Oh, the newbies are complaining about the site, so we’re gonna make everyone else change to fit them.” Which is not healthy for the site at all.

Players and moderators are still welcome to run/sign up for games that follow their preferences outside of the Newbie Queue. But for the sake of consistency there is no variation in the Newbie Queue. The change to 10 days for Day 1 and 7 for other day phases is a compromise between players who want deadlines at 4-7 days and players who want them at 14 days. The site isn't going to grow by catering to just one side or the other. In fact there's about 6 years worth of evidence showing that catering only to 14 day deadline players is a road to decline.
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Post Post #38  (ISO)  » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:22 am

To be fair, for most of those 6 years it was actually 3 week day 1's.
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Post Post #39  (ISO)  » Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:48 am

I won't play anything that has deadlines longer than 5 days. Games on my home site (TOS) would be a drag if day phases were longer than 5 days. 72/24 has become much more popular recently as well.

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Post Post #40  (ISO)  » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:42 pm

Uh... you guys do know that you are allowed to run ultrashort game phases here, right?
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Post Post #41  (ISO)  » Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:35 am

The difficulty is trying to find a moderator who has enough time, I think.

I can see the demand, but am unlikely to run a short-phase game simply because I doubt I could do things like flips and vote counts quickly enough to make a game going at that sort of speed playable.
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Post Post #42  (ISO)  » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:52 pm

In post 40, FakeGod wrote:Uh... you guys do know that you are allowed to run ultrashort game phases here, right?
High demand for them but no supply
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Post Post #43  (ISO)  » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:59 am

In post 42, Alisae wrote:
In post 40, FakeGod wrote:Uh... you guys do know that you are allowed to run ultrashort game phases here, right?
High demand for them but no supply
A follow up
Like, I look at this (and a lot of posts of this nature) and think those posters who are posting this have no idea whats going on on the site for the past year.
So because they’re so stuck in the fucking past they think “oh well someone can run them.”
A. But no one is offering it, and if they are offering it, its once in a blue moon, not a consistent offer.
B. The people who are asking for shorter deadlines are not people who want to mod shorter deadlines, they are people who want to play shorter deadlines. They are players. They want to play. They are most likely new to the community as well so they don’t know who to ask to mod shorter deadline games.

Like FG, if I asked you to mod a game with shorter deadlines would you do it?
I really don’t think you would but prove me wrong.
And if I asked Hito, mastina, or V to do it, they would probably tell me no as well.

Like please stop using this shitty excuse to not adapt to change.
Can you run these games with shorter deadlines?
Yes you can sure. You can say you can do something as much as you fucking want.
Is anyone going to actually do so?
Fuck no.
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Post Post #44  (ISO)  » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:13 am

In what way is that post helpful?
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Post Post #45  (ISO)  » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:23 am

I like to think my A and B points were helpful but I’m venting because I hate the fact it feels like the same people keep on posting “You want short deadlines, go run them yourself. Otherwise go play somewhere else”

Like, am I fucked up in the head, or does MS belong to a bunch of dinosaurs that want the site to die? Asking for a friend.
I’m personally leaning towards me being fucked up in the head (because I have my own issues), but a friend wants to know.
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Post Post #46  (ISO)  » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:26 am

The players who want to play games with shorter deadlines probably have a significant newbie - as in new to the site, not new to the game necessarily - population inside of it. Related to the newness and supplying that mod demand for shorter deadlines, I have this to say:

Maybe the players who want shorter deadlines can't be mods because they're new to the site and one of the requirements to mod your first time game is be a site member for three months. The other is to run your first time game (unless you have off-site experience) in either the Open Queue or the Normal Queue - the first you could probably mod a game with shorter deadlines and maybe the second, but I'm currently unaware if Normal Games have to have the two week day phase deadline.

Obviously if "newbies" join the site with the expectation of shorter deadlines, but no one's offering, they might've been inclined to mod one, but discovered that they couldn't because they're "too young" (aka their account's age).
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Post Post #47  (ISO)  » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:33 am

Also another point.
I’m not 100% sure on this, but I feel like its silently agreed that normals and opens have to have long deadlines.
This could potentially make the hurdle of modding new games for newbies who don’t want to mod games that long extremely difficult?

Unless PP or Implo say they’re ok with blitz deadline games in their queues, then ok maybe thats a bit more friendly to newer mods.
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Post Post #48  (ISO)  » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:38 am

To new players to the site who would like games with shorter deadlines:

Since there seems to be a demand but no supply for GwSD (games with shorter deadlines), would you yourselves mod with shorter deadlines?
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Post Post #49  (ISO)  » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:39 am

I assure you I haven't been posting “You want short deadlines, go run them yourself. Otherwise go play somewhere else”, Alisae.

I mean I could run shorter phased games, and maybe they will attract a bunch of players who enjoy shorter phases to the site... but why should I?

Shorter phased games are something I enjoy once in a blue moon, not all the time.
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