The Use of [redacted] in Games

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shortaru
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Post Post #0  (ISO)  » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:23 am

Example

This post and ones like it where the player is obviously using "illegal" content (by not only relying on information in ongoing games, but telling other players they are doing so in an effort to persuade them) doesn't seem like legitimate play, to me.

Does this kind of behavior not violate the spirit of site rules 2&3?

Ongoing game content should not be allowed for meta purposes in other games, even if the player being researched has had their alignment confirmed.
Does this post forward a scum win con, or do you just think I'm strange?

Strange != Scum

Jenga
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Post Post #1  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:00 am

I think the post quoted is a bigger violation of the rules for sentences that aren't awful to read

Irrelephant11
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Post Post #2  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:39 pm

I don't object to the use of [redacted], but I do agree that sometimes it's used to leniently

For examples, if I were to want to say "I townread this person because their activity and gamesolving match a game they just got nightkilled in as town"
And I said "I townread this person because their activity and gamesolving match [redacted]" - I would find this to be bending the rules unfairly for sure
Instead, I usually just say "[redacted]" in which case people know I have more thoughts and I might get to share them later but receive no hints as to what those thoughts are

I find most people are in between, and try to lean toward the latter, but sometimes accidentally do the former. I think the former should receive a warning from the mod or some such

shortaru
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Post Post #3  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:50 pm

Yeah, that is fair.

What I object to is blatantly referring to an ongoing game under the mask of [redacted].
Does this post forward a scum win con, or do you just think I'm strange?

Strange != Scum

Lycanfire
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Post Post #4  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:52 pm

Redactions should only be valid for secret alts or secret games. You should be willing to out the secret if a majority of people not in support of your viewpoint aren't in on it.

If you're referencing an ongoing, it's because there's a reason why you scumread somebody. Hammer that point through. If the other game happens to finish, it's now supplementary evidence.

There's no grey area. As for the content in the OP I think this is a case of secret alt.

shortaru
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Post Post #5  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:57 pm

It's bringing in an outside influence which cannot be independently examined or debated.
Does this post forward a scum win con, or do you just think I'm strange?

Strange != Scum

profii
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Post Post #6  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:54 pm

I wanted to town read someone because of something they did in an ongoing game where we had both flipped

i checked with the mod because me talking about a flipped players behaviour has absolutely no consequence on that game as i had also flipped

but was told not to do it

i wouldnt even have thought to have said [redacted] to try and bend the rule - pretty lame i think

shortaru
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Post Post #7  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:06 pm

Yet it happens.

A lot.
Does this post forward a scum win con, or do you just think I'm strange?

Strange != Scum

callforjudgement
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Post Post #8  (ISO)  » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:16 pm

People using [redacted] as a way to refer to ongoing games was very common at one point, and became a fairly large problem. One of the reasons our current ongoing game rules are so strict is in an attempt to stop it.

About the only thing you can do if you have a read based on an ongoing game is to not specify the reason at all, and look for reasons for the same read in your own game and give those instead.
scum · scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn · town

Flubbernugget
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Post Post #9  (ISO)  » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:03 pm

It really shouldn't be that hard to case someone outside of meta from an ongoing game if they're scum

Micc
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Post Post #10  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:40 pm

The listmod team spent some time talking about this behind the scenes and here's where we stand:

You're allowed to play in multiple games at once and read games you're not playing in. You're allowed to use what you read in one game to inform your play in another game. You're allowed to say that you are using another ongoing game to inform your play. What you're not allowed to do is break the discussion of ongoing game rules. This means you cannot reference specific details about the other ongoing game.

If a player is using [redacted] or a similar phrase in a way that is meant to imply specific details to the reader with out actually mentioning them that's still a violation of the ongoing games rules. We'd prefer that players just say they can't discuss something "because of ongoing games" rather than write out a sentence and substitute [redacted]. The former is much less likely to imply specific details to the reader than the latter.

I think Micc is town but I can't explain why because of ongoing games.

This is acceptable because no details about the other game are mentioned or implied.

I think Micc is town because his play here is similar to an ongoing game where he was town.

This is not acceptable because it mentions specific details about an ongoing game (that Micc was town).

I think Micc is town because [redacted] is similar to [redacted].

This is not acceptable because it implies specific things to the reader about the ongoing game (that they should look for things that are similar).

I think Micc is town because his play here is similar to something I can't talk about.

This is not acceptable because it implies specific things to the reader about the ongoing game (that they should look for things that are similar).

I think Micc is town because [redacted].

This is acceptable because no details about another game are mentioned or implied.


As always, feel free to send one of us a PM if you have questions or would like further clarification.
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Lycanfire
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Post Post #11  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:12 am

I'm just shocked that House had a Grey area secret alt

freehouse


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