The fine art of balancing civility vs. free speech

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Nancy Drew 39
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Post Post #0  (ISO)  » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:05 pm

This is a frequently debated topic on most Mafia sites and having the right balance between them, contributes the highest overall player enjoyment.

Err too far in the direction of free speech, where pretty much anything goes, and you have a highly toxic extremely unpleasant environment for the vast majority of players. OTOH, err too far in the direction of civility, can lead to players losing interest, due to feeling overcontrolled and walking on eggshells.

Hate speech for example, is frequently disallowed and obviously prevents that specific type of toxicity without making most players feel overcontrolled.

I think that attacking play or an idea, is always fine and while it’s certainly easy to argue against insults of any kind, the somewhat hostile, bullying or inflammatory aspect to someone’s play, can make that a slippery slope. Obviously, because it’s kind of naive to think someone isn’t going to negatively react to that but then insults can then arguably also make the game toxic. So, where should you draw the line?

Thing with Nancy is we just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it.

(I'm slightly scared of Nancy)
~ the worst

Nero Cain
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Post Post #1  (ISO)  » Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:12 pm

lynch and WOTC the toxic players
#banallhydras

Varsoon
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Post Post #2  (ISO)  » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:37 pm

I think that so long as you consider that this site is meant to be PG in content,
that hate-speech is banned,
and that insults directed towards players themselves are generally considered abusive,
you get to what is a fairly solid standard for how players should conduct themselves. If players still manage to be unpleasantly inflammatory under these regulations without (somehow) breaking any, then it's up to the moderator to warn a player and/or force-replace them if their play is compromising the game.

However, I fully acknowledge and sometimes (too passionately, even) embrace that mafia is a game of rhetoric, and rhetoric can be aggressive and without quarter for one's opponent. This is still a game about using words to convince a mass of players to LYNCH a target, after all.

Varsoon
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Post Post #3  (ISO)  » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:42 pm

Outside of the moderator's scope, however, I do side with Nero here:
If a player's rhetoric isn't conducive towards you solving the game and you have no better scumread, lynch that player. If they're town, it teaches them an important lesson in being more pleasant, and if they're scum, good job!
If you personally can not handle the way in which a player approaches games and deploys their rhetoric, avoid playing with that player. I don't avoid players, myself, as I want to challenge myself to play with and overcome these sort of obstacles, but I understand how absolutely infuriating, annoying, depressing, and/or awful it can be to play with certain individuals and if I wasn't the kind of person who actually enjoyed those sensations to a degree while having an ethos of competition without barriers, I'd probably be hard-blacklisting some folks.

Nancy Drew 39
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Post Post #4  (ISO)  » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:59 pm

In post 2, Varsoon wrote:I think that so long as you consider that this site is meant to be PG in content,
that hate-speech is banned,
and that insults directed towards players themselves are generally considered abusive,
you get to what is a fairly solid standard for how players should conduct themselves. If players still manage to be unpleasantly inflammatory under these regulations without (somehow) breaking any, then it's up to the moderator to warn a player and/or force-replace them if their play is compromising the game.

However, I fully acknowledge and sometimes (too passionately, even) embrace that mafia is a game of rhetoric, and rhetoric can be aggressive and without quarter for one's opponent. This is still a game about using words to convince a mass of players to LYNCH a target, after all.


You, Nsg, RC, Xyzzy, A50, Krazy are all mods I would 100% sign up for their games.

Thing with Nancy is we just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it.

(I'm slightly scared of Nancy)
~ the worst

Firebringer
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Post Post #5  (ISO)  » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:18 pm

In post 3, Varsoon wrote:Outside of the moderator's scope, however, I do side with Nero here:
If a player's rhetoric isn't conducive towards you solving the game and you have no better scumread, lynch that player. If they're town, it teaches them an important lesson in being more pleasant, and if they're scum, good job!
If you personally can not handle the way in which a player approaches games and deploys their rhetoric, avoid playing with that player. I don't avoid players, myself, as I want to challenge myself to play with and overcome these sort of obstacles, but I understand how absolutely infuriating, annoying, depressing, and/or awful it can be to play with certain individuals and if I wasn't the kind of person who actually enjoyed those sensations to a degree while having an ethos of competition without barriers, I'd probably be hard-blacklisting some folks.

Do you think players lynching you for being toxic would teach you a lesson?
Eddie Cane

Varsoon
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Post Post #6  (ISO)  » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:26 pm

I think it'd make me reconsider a lot in general, though if I was town and being toxic, I'd be resentful at first for them not focusing on the game, but if I was lynched over it because I was legitimately driving the game away from being solved, that's fine.

Like that one game where that happened recently.

mhsmith0
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Post Post #7  (ISO)  » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:38 pm

Getting lynched for toxicity is certainly something which should make people rethink approach a bit. Sometimes you get lynched b/c derpy people have short fuses, and well shit happens. But if you get "fuck you" mislynched a lot, then it's probably much more you than the people mislynching you.
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Varsoon
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Post Post #8  (ISO)  » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:41 pm

Here's the big thing that I think doesn't happen as much as it should:
One of the core tenets of this site is to respect each other.
If someone is posting in a way that makes you uncomfortable or upset and you kindly ask them to tone down their rhetoric and they don't, then they're not respecting you. You can push a wagon without attacking a player themselves. That said, I feel like a lot of players don't differentiate between their play being attacked and themselves being attacked.


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