"Don't look too town as scum"

This forum is for discussion related to the game.
Flubbernugget
Survivor
 
User avatar
Joined: June 26, 2014
Pronoun: He

Post Post #0  (ISO)  » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:58 pm

The saying goes that if you look too town as scum you'll get lynched in lylo for still being alive.

Except, I don't think I've ever seen scum snow a town and then lose the game in lylo over it.

So, does this actually happen?

MathBlade
Survivor
 
User avatar
Joined: September 09, 2013
Location: Western US
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1  (ISO)  » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:38 pm

In post 0, Flubbernugget wrote:The saying goes that if you look too town as scum you'll get lynched in lylo for still being alive.

Except, I don't think I've ever seen scum snow a town and then lose the game in lylo over it.

So, does this actually happen?


To me quite often. But I generally work out of it. Not always
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
GTKAS -- MathBlade

mastina
Memorable Event
 
User avatar
Joined: October 08, 2016
Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Pronoun: She

Post Post #2  (ISO)  » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:44 pm

In post 0, Flubbernugget wrote:The saying goes that if you look too town as scum you'll get lynched in lylo for still being alive. Except, I don't think I've ever seen scum snow a town and then lose the game in lylo over it. So, does this actually happen?
The only reason to not look too town as scum is because the headache it'll give you in all future games.

For instance.

Because I've done literally everything as scum, there's nothing I can't do as scum, meaning anything I could do I could be doing as scum--meaning, regardless of it being a towngame or scumgame. People are suspicious of me because of what I did in that past scumgame where I did that town-looking thing.

Which, honestly, is a silly reason. You should always be playing to win your current game, not your future games, so do your utmost for your current game even if it means towning it up as scum and facing the fallout postgame.

So while there's technically reasons that not being too town as scum could be of use in theory, in practice, if you manage to look town as scum? Good for you! You're doing what you're supposed to be doing.
Avatar by Aristophanes.

Sticks McGee: Infiltrating the Complex is coming to Mish Mash...as soon as I draw the hundreds of images necessary!
Ballroom Blitz has ended!

the worst
Snuggly Duckling
 
User avatar
Joined: November 07, 2015
Location: pond
Pronoun: He

Post Post #3  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:34 am

I think there's merit in checking yourself (don't be like the only person holding the torch if the rest of the game is dead as fuck) but you can ALWAYS outplay still being alive in LyLo

I think I err on the side of criticism of this advice too, Flubber

also I'm pretty sure the moral of this story is to always lynch mastina as soon as possible....

RadiantCowbells
Smooth Criminal
 
User avatar
Joined: February 24, 2013
Pronoun: He

Post Post #4  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:37 am

You can always reinvent yourself as scum and you always need to be doing stuff that people won't point to recent scum experiences and be like HEY HE DID THAT AS SCUM.

That said I went undefeated as scum in 2018 while only actually trying in one game and pretty much just lurking the rest of them so you can get away with that even.

Rolling scum is like pressing the easy button
Ask yourself, what would Keyser Soze do?

Super Smash Bros. Fan
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: March 25, 2010
Pronoun: He

Post Post #5  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:16 pm

I don't see how a scum can look too town. If your behavior resembles that of a townie, regardless of alignment, clearly that's a sign of good play.

There's a better case to make to not look too town if you have a Town power role seeing as you're not trying to gain the attention of scums for a night kill.

brassherald
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: December 21, 2017
Location: New York
Pronoun: He

Post Post #6  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:21 pm

In post 3, the worst wrote:I think there's merit in checking yourself

I believe you meant to continue with "before wrecking yourself."

Creature
Transparent
 
User avatar
Joined: January 26, 2016
Location: Lands of Fire
Pronoun: He

Post Post #7  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:24 pm

tbh players get paranoid regardless and sometimes you survive as obvtown because you're prone to paranoia anyway
Make mafiascum great again

mastina
Memorable Event
 
User avatar
Joined: October 08, 2016
Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Pronoun: She

Post Post #8  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:59 pm

In post 5, Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:There's a better case to make to not look too town if you have a Town power role seeing as you're not trying to gain the attention of scums for a night kill.
Yeah that's a terrible idea. If you try to avoid looking town, there's no favorable outcome. If vts look town and PRS don't, scum can find the PRS. If you practice this, it becomes easy for scum to spot PR you. And then the obvious: if you don't look town in a game where the vts (and probably scum, too) look town, who do you think that they're going to lynch?
Avatar by Aristophanes.

Sticks McGee: Infiltrating the Complex is coming to Mish Mash...as soon as I draw the hundreds of images necessary!
Ballroom Blitz has ended!

the worst
Snuggly Duckling
 
User avatar
Joined: November 07, 2015
Location: pond
Pronoun: He

Post Post #9  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:17 pm

In post 5, Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:I don't see how a scum can look too town. If your behavior resembles that of a townie, regardless of alignment, clearly that's a sign of good play.

There's a better case to make to not look too town if you have a Town power role seeing as you're not trying to gain the attention of scums for a night kill.


To an extent it's nice to be kinda nulltown as a town power role. But then you get into a situation where perceptive scum are like "...why is this townie fpsing" and end up just shooting you.

I'd actually argue it's better to be meh-townie only really as a VT who feels that they're playing badly; if you can draw an ill motivated wagon and force people to play their hand to lynch you, you're up. and if you can obvtown under pressure that's cool. and if you look FPSy and eat a night kill to protect power roles + other strong town, that is all gains.

In post 6, brassherald wrote:
In post 3, the worst wrote:I think there's merit in checking yourself

I believe you meant to continue with "before wrecking yourself."


Nobody else makes me laugh at work so consistently. :lol:

the worst
Snuggly Duckling
 
User avatar
Joined: November 07, 2015
Location: pond
Pronoun: He

Post Post #10  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:18 pm

this thread reminds me of tchill13's signature

Elsa Jay
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: September 30, 2018
Location: 'Murica, or Arrendelle. Either works.
Pronoun: He

Post Post #11  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:45 pm

Just be like me or Bambi and play to your own self-alignment. Worked wonders for me so far.
I made a GTKAS. Go shitpost in it if you want. It's very lonely. Or check out Lynch Happy instead. I'm pretty proud of it.

"Even when I leave mafia and play an entirely different game I can't escape you you menace." - North/Wenya

the worst
Snuggly Duckling
 
User avatar
Joined: November 07, 2015
Location: pond
Pronoun: He

Post Post #12  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:54 am

"Always Don't look too town as scum"

Nancy Drew 39
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: January 14, 2018
Location: KrazyTown
Pronoun: She

Post Post #13  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:59 am

I know how to play vt and scum, it’s playing PRs that wreck me. :/
It is not necessary to accept everything as true, one must only accept it as necessary. ~Kafka

Nancy Drew 39
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: January 14, 2018
Location: KrazyTown
Pronoun: She

Post Post #14  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:07 am

It’s worth noting the obvious, that most mislynches happen because of town looking too much like scum, which usually means they’re town lhf.
It is not necessary to accept everything as true, one must only accept it as necessary. ~Kafka

Alchemist21
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: September 05, 2014
Location: North Carolina
Pronoun: He

Post Post #15  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:09 am

I think I once got lynched for looking too Town as scum, but iirc it was also a smaller point in a list of other reasons.
Press Image to pay respects.

mhsmith0
Balancing Act
 
User avatar
Joined: March 07, 2016
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Pronoun: He

Post Post #16  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:23 pm

Many people have 0 clue what is alignment-indicative or alignment-relevant, which means that most tells are basically =rand

I'd say that "looking town" in a lot of peoples' minds is a function of consistent engagement, making sense, and sounding like an intelligent human being.

None of those things are actually towntells, of course, and in terms of many peoples' metas, are explicit scumtells.

TLDR: if you want to avoid "looking too town" just make shittier-looking posts. Problem solved :P
Show

PokerFace
Too Useful
 
User avatar
Joined: July 20, 2007
Location: Ohio, USA Cleveland_Rocks!

Post Post #17  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:29 pm

People usually vote the scumiest before they vote the towniest. As long as all living players are not more town than you, you should be fine faking town as scum. The only time being too town as scum is bad is if you give town too much help. For example...

You are heading toward a prisoners dilemma. The right play is for town to force scum to kill each other. You are scum. For some reason you tell the town the ideal play

Telling the enemy the ideal play when the ideal play is too good, is a bad time to be too town as scum. There's a reason I got the title too useful...
Plays as PokerFace on irc
Plays as Noj on scumchat
I love to Vidge on Night 0

PokerFace
Too Useful
 
User avatar
Joined: July 20, 2007
Location: Ohio, USA Cleveland_Rocks!

Post Post #18  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:39 pm

Ironically there was a face to face game I played at a convention once where the runner of the panel, myself, and another player were alive in lylo. I had played the game before a lot and obviously the runner of the panel had done the same. We had far more game experience than the final player. The runner of the panel looked at me and asked "Why am I alive right now?" I responded "That's... a good question". The runner then said "If you were mafia, you would have killed me." I came to the same conclusion about him. Since we were both town, we immediately voted the inexperienced player who was indeed mafia. As long as there are scummier players, faking town works. Be careful to keep the scummier players alive, and don't given them enough advice so that they become more town than you
Plays as PokerFace on irc
Plays as Noj on scumchat
I love to Vidge on Night 0

the worst
Snuggly Duckling
 
User avatar
Joined: November 07, 2015
Location: pond
Pronoun: He

Post Post #19  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:50 pm

In post 16, mhsmith0 wrote:I'd say that "looking town" in a lot of peoples' minds is a function of consistent engagement, making sense, and sounding like an intelligent human being.

None of those things are actually towntells, of course, and in terms of many peoples' metas, are explicit scumtells.

note to self: don't roll scum against mhsmith0
he's already onto you

Yuchou
Townie
 
User avatar
Joined: January 17, 2019

Post Post #20  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:23 pm

I think there is a need to exactly describe how *too town* we're talking about.

It's fine and good play to get townread as scum, however as the game goes on, if a player was so townread that no one even dared to question his alignment anymore (like, townlocked), and others players that were less townread or even scumread are getting nightkilled, I believe being *too town* as scum is going to backfire.

Everyone not tunneling someone for being a bit erractic will end up looking at you and questioning "so...hmmm, why aren't you dead bro?".

Sure, there's some excuses, like the player in question not being a "threat" to scum, but that only works if the already nightkilled guys were being a "threat" (had presence) or had very different read lists than you.

There are times that someone very town read gets to LyLo even though they are town, so if you're scum you can try to write it off as WIFOM as well, but it's kind of rare and...

I mean, it's very suspicious for someone being town read so strongly and early to get to LyLo. You can end up getting lynched only for that reason.

Being town read but not so much town read is the best place for scum I would say. Hard to get there though, since it's already a challenge to sound town anyway.

However...I don't think anyone should worry about being too town read as scum, you'll probably end up doing one or two scummy things at minimum.

Nancy Drew 39
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: January 14, 2018
Location: KrazyTown
Pronoun: She

Post Post #21  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:24 am

In post 17, PokerFace wrote:People usually vote the scumiest before they vote the towniest. As long as all living players are not more town than you, you should be fine faking town as scum. The only time being too town as scum is bad is if you give town too much help. For example...

You are heading toward a prisoners dilemma. The right play is for town to force scum to kill each other. You are scum. For some reason you tell the town the ideal play

Telling the enemy the ideal play when the ideal play is too good, is a bad time to be too town as scum. There's a reason I got the title too useful...


I think it’s a difficult thing for scum to manage - posting like they would as town - with a townie mindset and not play against their wincon. Only the best and most experienced players, have figured out how to correctly navigate this fine line. For most players however, it is beyond their scumrange to be able to successfully pull that off.
It is not necessary to accept everything as true, one must only accept it as necessary. ~Kafka

Nancy Drew 39
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: January 14, 2018
Location: KrazyTown
Pronoun: She

Post Post #22  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:27 am

In post 19, the worst wrote:
In post 16, mhsmith0 wrote:I'd say that "looking town" in a lot of peoples' minds is a function of consistent engagement, making sense, and sounding like an intelligent human being.

None of those things are actually towntells, of course, and in terms of many peoples' metas, are explicit scumtells.

note to self: don't roll scum against mhsmith0
he's already onto you


:lol:

It kind of blows my mind, when scum thinks they can get away with nonsensical WIFOM - most can’t and many horribly over-estimate their ability to successfully pull that off.
It is not necessary to accept everything as true, one must only accept it as necessary. ~Kafka

Persivul
His Majesty the King
 
User avatar
Joined: May 04, 2015
Pronoun: He

Post Post #23  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:54 am

In post 0, Flubbernugget wrote:The saying goes that if you look too town as scum you'll get lynched in lylo for still being alive.

Except, I don't think I've ever seen scum snow a town and then lose the game in lylo over it.

So, does this actually happen?

Not really.

In general, the reasoning is that scum don't target the towniest player for a NK, because that's the player who's most likely to be protected.

That doesn't work in open setups that don't have protectives. Still, I can't recall seeing it happen.

If I'm an investigative and a super townie person is still alive D3, I'm checking them N3.

Persivul
His Majesty the King
 
User avatar
Joined: May 04, 2015
Pronoun: He

Post Post #24  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:59 am

In post 4, RadiantCowbells wrote:You can always reinvent yourself as scum and you always need to be doing stuff that people won't point to recent scum experiences and be like HEY HE DID THAT AS SCUM.

That said I went undefeated as scum in 2018 while only actually trying in one game and pretty much just lurking the rest of them so you can get away with that even.

Rolling scum is like pressing the easy button

It's easy to win as scum if you play scummy when town. People will look at meta, say he always plays that way, and let it go. And there seems to be a trend toward that.

People like that should be policy lynched, vigged, or investigated.

Unfortunately, towns have gotten away from those things. So, now game developers are making town-sided setups.

Really, towns should just go back to fundamentals, and those fundamentals should be taught in newbies.

Next
[ + ]

Return to Mafia Discussion