Newbie Queue Changes: The IC Role

[mhsmith0]

I wonder if, given the fairly extreme skew of results towards newbscum teams getting rolled a lot, it might make sense to create an advisory position exclusive to newbscum teams, something like a "Guilty Child" or thereabouts, where someone gets to post in scum topic in an advisory role, but only if the scum team is all newbie (and if there's at least 1 SE, they instead are a silent watcher in scum chat but don't actually participate).

idk if that'd be a fun role for people to take on or not, but maybe something along those lines might be interesting to help balance results, especially if we're worried about the potential for newbie-newbie scum teams to get frustrated and leave the site after getting rolled too easily?

[TTTT]

^this
the newbie-newbie scum teams are getting eviscerated

[Flavor Leaf]

Like a Scum coach. That could be fun. They’d have to be a hidden sort of queue or people would use some sort of “he’s coaching. This must be a newbie-newbie scum team” kind of thing.

[Lycanfire]

"guilty child" is a dumb idea because it assumes newbies are just as dumb as the idea is

they're capable of reading a completed game in their spare time

this means that new players perform to the extent of their ability. the lower winrate you have the newer you are is attributed to practice instead of theory. there's effectively nothing a coach can do for a player short of what that player could do for themselves.

btw in the 2d3 game i modded the noob scum team mercilessly slaughtered a well established town.

[TTTT]

there's effectively nothing a coach can do for a player short of what that player could do for themselves.

I've been in several newbie games recently where coaching would have helped newbscum avoid making errors that exposed them as scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

28 is wrong in so many ways lol

[Lycanfire]

I've been in several newbie games recently where coaching would have helped newbscum avoid making errors that exposed them as scum.

New idea: when there's a newbie-newbie scumteam, invite 2 SE-compliant players, demand the passwords of the newbies, and have the SE-compliant players login to their accounts and play the game for them.

It's the only way they will learn.

[mhsmith0]

Any idiot is capable of reading a completed game
Not every idiot is capable of learning anything from the exercise

A decent coach type presence could be helpful for
1) basic teaching of how to avoid really obvious scum tells
2) basic teaching of how to PR hunt and how to manipulate a setup, including when to soft or fake a claim
3) motivating people, all the more so when a game turns into a replace out fest, or town is competent, or any number of other things that can sap motivation might apply

Is this overall a good idea? Heck if I know. Is it worth considering? Sure, why not. There really IS a problem of newbscum teams getting rolled overall, and it's something that ought to have *SOME* kind of active attempt to help it, whether this or something else.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like guilty child is a terrible idea don't get me wrong but for the opposite reason

Put a really good scum player as guilty child and town never wins

[RadiantCowbells]

Newbscum get rolled because the setup is townsided and making it even survivable as scum requires you to understand the setup on a deep level

[mhsmith0]

Like guilty child is a terrible idea don't get me wrong but for the opposite reason
Put a really good scum player as guilty child and town never wins

And that's also a consideration (of course, a really good player as guilty child who gets sidelined b/c there's 1-2 SEs as wolf will not see much impact on scum win rates in those games )
I also think there's a non-trivial # of quality towns that randomly pop up in these games which can get rough even for good scum teams
And I also think there's a distinct gap between receiving good advice and being able to effectively implement said advice.

[MaryJoLisa]

If people like the IC role, why can't the role be reinvisioned into something that is more of a coach or mentor who drops into various newbie games and points out rules and policies and answers questions that players may have? After the game, the IC can disclose their opinion of player's game strategy and they can openly participate in the end-game banter is a positive way that helps heal all those salty wounds that newbies may not have the past playing experience to put in perspective.

If the player-IC is perceived by newbies to be a trusted mentor, and that mentor stabs them in the back (which is part of the game, and I get that) or becomes angry when the newbie's actions take away from the IC's perceived wincon, then the lines between teacher and opponent may be too fuzzy for the newbies (who as a group have a wide range of personalities and past playing experience) to reasonably distinguish on a consistent basis.

The idea of an IC in a newbie game is a good one, but my two cents is that if people do want that IC role for the purpose of helping newbies out, have ICs as more of a mini moderator, not a fellow competitor. Maybe one who doesn't know the setup or the roles and can offer impartial advice and answer questions.

[u r a person 2]

Newbscum get rolled because the setup is townsided and making it even survivable as scum requires you to understand the setup on a deep level

It would be neat if you wrote a little article about playing the setup as scum. It could be linked to along with all the other resources at the start of a newbie, and I bet it would really help people.

[Toomai]

The idea of an IC in a newbie game is a good one, but my two cents is that if people do want that IC role for the purpose of helping newbies out, have ICs as more of a mini moderator, not a fellow competitor. Maybe one who doesn't know the setup or the roles and can offer impartial advice and answer questions.

Spectators in Newbie Games

Bias in a spectator/dead IC is impossible to avoid.

• If they're as uninformed as a spectator, they're more likely to be game-solving and thus pro-town.
  
• If they know who PRs are, they're probably going to be subconsciously biased towards advice for those roles.
  
• If they know who the scum are, they're more likely to accidentally have advice for their exact situation that players can link.
  
• If they're as informed as the mod, might as well have the mod do the job, and it's generally considered that's not good.

And adding on a fifth point: It creates a "tenth slot" that needs to be filled and reasonably follow the game.

[popsofctown]

[*]If they're as uninformed as a spectator, they're more likely to be game-solving and thus pro-town.

So just shift the standard setup four and a half yards in the direction of the scum to keep things at a 50% winrate. Although any winrate besides 90/10 should be fine for newbies.

It seems like a fine idea.

I kinda dislike the change. I would have preferred to see the requirements for firing a game change without eliminating the role. The role prevented any one newbie game from getting overkill on experienced player availability, which means one of the other newbie games missed out.

[Nachomamma8]

I understand the reason for the change based on how things were trending when I left and props for making it, but it's definitely a depressing one.