Unpopular mafia opinions

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RadiantCowbells
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Post Post #0  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:40 am

from least unpopular to most unpopular

5) anyone who says that they don't bus unless they need to or not at all is essentially claiming that they are a scum player with a narrow range of games that they are able to play
4) fluffposting contains just as much alignment indicative information as walls and cases and is more difficult for most players to fake
3) looking towny as scum is either the least or the second least important scum skill next to imitating your towngame despite the heavy value most assign to it
2) energy, charisma, and time to post in thread are in most cases the factors that determine whether a player is lynched or not, not towniness of posts.
1) MS's high replace rate is a blessing in disguise, except when it gets to the point where games are bleeding people faster than they can replace
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Post Post #1  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:14 am

like 80% of the things I say about the game fit into the unpopular mafia opinions mold
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Post Post #2  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:01 am

5) ok (sure)
4) no (fluff=AI agree. fluff just as much AI disagree.)
3) ok (I dunno enough to comment on this)
2) ok (depends)
1) ok (uhh sure)
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Post Post #3  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:10 am

In post 0, RadiantCowbells wrote:MS's high replace rate is a blessing in disguise

Can you clarify this? Are you saying that it helps a certain faction to win, or that it improves the quality of games?
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mhsmith0
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Post Post #4  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:48 pm

In post 0, RadiantCowbells wrote:from least unpopular to most unpopular

5) anyone who says that they don't bus unless they need to or not at all is essentially claiming that they are a scum player with a narrow range of games that they are able to play
4) fluffposting contains just as much alignment indicative information as walls and cases and is more difficult for most players to fake
3) looking towny as scum is either the least or the second least important scum skill next to imitating your towngame despite the heavy value most assign to it
2) energy, charisma, and time to post in thread are in most cases the factors that determine whether a player is lynched or not, not towniness of posts.
1) MS's high replace rate is a blessing in disguise, except when it gets to the point where games are bleeding people faster than they can replace


5) probably true :shifty:

4) somewhat disagree; I think that cases and pushes are unreadable when dealing w people who lack the skills to understand anything about AI behavior, and shitposting is unreadable for anyone who’s able to post comfortably while scum (but is probably quite readable for newer players and/or those who are in like severe wolf burnout). TLDR: really depends on the players

3) Imitating your actual towngame is backseat to looking town; if yiur towngame is lynchbait then it’s actively counterproductive to imitate it usually, for instance. For looking town... I think it really depends on quality of player list. If the game quality is really low, it’s probably enough by itself to win a high % of the time. If the game quality is really high, then FAILING to do so just makes you dead scum and the rest of the stuff you do isn’t very important because you’re just dead scum. In between is where I agree with you. In a game where you can take some liberties but can’t just be blatant scum, then stuff like effectively pushing fake cases, making thread environment proscum, etc. can all have much higher value (also I’m thinking the sort of board where just looking town means you’re just the last wolf lynched which is little consolation)

2) tend to agree

1) tend to disagree. I think it’s damaging to game state where people can hop in and out just because they feel like it or game x isn’t fun, much less where they can RWSTFO (rand wolf sub the fuck out) as part of meta with no real consequence.
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Firebringer
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Post Post #5  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:53 am

In post 0, RadiantCowbells wrote:5) anyone who says that they don't bus unless they need to or not at all is essentially claiming that they are a scum player with a narrow range of games that they are able to play4) fluffposting contains just as much alignment indicative information as walls and cases and is more difficult for most players to fake3) looking towny as scum is either the least or the second least important scum skill next to imitating your towngame despite the heavy value most assign to it2) energy, charisma, and time to post in thread are in most cases the factors that determine whether a player is lynched or not, not towniness of posts.1) MS's high replace rate is a blessing in disguise, except when it gets to the point where games are bleeding people faster than they can replace

5) is that like a popular thing people say, I mostly think people are underselling their scum game on purpose to suspiciously deny any person claiming they are scum. I don't often believe anyone saying this. Everyone busses under some conditions if they are met.
4) i think if theres a certain context to the fluff posting it could be but I think its pretty easy to fake most of it. I wonder what examples ur thinking of where it was AI vs NAI here.
3) what is the order of scum skills? I would think being townread is second most important next to getting people to lynch who u want.
2) yeah. but i have seen people who put so much energy and time in and get lynched anyways and some people who skate by and do nothing and people don't bother lynching them because its a waste of time.
1) meh
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mhsmith0
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Post Post #6  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:19 am

In post 5, Firebringer wrote:5) is that like a popular thing people say, I mostly think people are underselling their scum game on purpose to suspiciously deny any person claiming they are scum. I don't often believe anyone saying this. Everyone busses under some conditions if they are met.


I have almost never seriously bussed in a game, but I also suck as wolf so :P
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Post Post #7  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:33 am

5) agree
4) agree, although it is very difficult to extract meaningful info from fluffposting even though it is there. This also depends on the player.
3) this might be true for you RC but I think it's likely false for most players on the site.
2) depends on how you define "towny." if you mean that people's reads tend to reflect energy, charisma, etc., then mostly agree, but if you mean that people ignore their reads and lynch low-charisma players, yeah it happens but not that much.
1) if by this you mean that a high replacement rate occurs because people don't take games seriously, and it'd be worse if everyone did take games seriously, then that makes sense, but otherwise I don't follow.
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Post Post #8  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:24 pm

Unpopular opinion: I agree with everything RC said, 100%.
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Persivul
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Post Post #9  (ISO)  » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:34 am

In post 0, RadiantCowbells wrote:from least unpopular to most unpopular

5) anyone who says that they don't bus unless they need to or not at all is essentially claiming that they are a scum player with a narrow range of games that they are able to play

Maybe this is mostly semantics and you're not really expressing your thoughts accurately, but: yeah, of course I don't bus unless I need to. The only reason to bus when you don't need to (i.e. in order to maximize your chance of winning the game) is for lulz or to try to win a scummy.

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Post Post #10  (ISO)  » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:48 pm

5) Agree
4) Maybe. Normally I find it easier to look at people's pushes and actions for motivation.
3) Disagree
2) Maybe
1) Tempted to disagree but interested in the mindset behind this
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callforjudgement
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Post Post #11  (ISO)  » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:48 am

Bussing in the sense of actively getting your anti-town team-mates lynched is usually not a good idea, and people do it more often than they should. Scum wins a lot doing it but would win even more if they never did it.

I have, however, done it before, and I suspect I was correct to do so. I do, however, try to avoid it unless the gamestate implies that it's necessary.

I agree that looking townie as scum is relatively unimportant as scum skills go, especially if you're doing it at the cost of making your partners easier to find. (This ties into not bussing, fwiw; bussing generally makes you look townier but the cost to your team is rarely worth it.)

OTOH, bussing in the sense of making people believe you're trying to get your partners lynched, without actually succeeding in doing so, is a great scum tactic that should be used more often. (This used to be called "distancing" but the terminology got blurred at some point.) The ideal is to genuinely try to get them lynched, in the knowledge that you're sufficiently bad at persuasion that you will almost certainly fail.
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Nancy Drew 39
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Post Post #12  (ISO)  » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:35 am

In post 4, mhsmith0 wrote:
In post 0, RadiantCowbells wrote:from least unpopular to most unpopular

5) anyone who says that they don't bus unless they need to or not at all is essentially claiming that they are a scum player with a narrow range of games that they are able to play
4) fluffposting contains just as much alignment indicative information as walls and cases and is more difficult for most players to fake
3) looking towny as scum is either the least or the second least important scum skill next to imitating your towngame despite the heavy value most assign to it
2) energy, charisma, and time to post in thread are in most cases the factors that determine whether a player is lynched or not, not towniness of posts.
1) MS's high replace rate is a blessing in disguise, except when it gets to the point where games are bleeding people faster than they can replace


5) probably true :shifty:

4) somewhat disagree; I think that cases and pushes are unreadable when dealing w people who lack the skills to understand anything about AI behavior, and shitposting is unreadable for anyone who’s able to post comfortably while scum (but is probably quite readable for newer players and/or those who are in like severe wolf burnout). TLDR: really depends on the players

3) Imitating your actual towngame is backseat to looking town; if yiur towngame is lynchbait then it’s actively counterproductive to imitate it usually, for instance. For looking town... I think it really depends on quality of player list. If the game quality is really low, it’s probably enough by itself to win a high % of the time. If the game quality is really high, then FAILING to do so just makes you dead scum and the rest of the stuff you do isn’t very important because you’re just dead scum. In between is where I agree with you. In a game where you can take some liberties but can’t just be blatant scum, then stuff like effectively pushing fake cases, making thread environment proscum, etc. can all have much higher value (also I’m thinking the sort of board where just looking town means you’re just the last wolf lynched which is little consolation)

2) tend to agree

1) tend to disagree. I think it’s damaging to game state where people can hop in and out just because they feel like it or game x isn’t fun, much less where they can RWSTFO (rand wolf sub the fuck out) as part of meta with no real consequence.


Which is what Numbers does every time they roll scum.

Thing with Nancy is we just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it.

(I'm slightly scared of Nancy)
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Post Post #13  (ISO)  » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:00 am

5: true. I have broken from the anti-bus pedestal I was on but still hold a distaste for senseless bussing.
4: probably true.
3: probably true. You don't need to be the most town, just never the least town.
2: true.
1: explain?
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Post Post #14  (ISO)  » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:38 am

I agree with everything except for "imitating your town game isn't important"

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Post Post #15  (ISO)  » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:38 pm

This isn’t unpopular but reading anyone based on activity levels is bs. More mislynches come from that than anything else.

Thing with Nancy is we just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it.

(I'm slightly scared of Nancy)
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Post Post #16  (ISO)  » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:45 pm

sort by post count, become werewolf expert
works shockingly well especially if you lack other good ideas and especially if a reasonable % of the game doesn't know how to high post as wolf (or if their high WIM iso's are super wolfy while wolf in which case u just lynch there glgl)

13 players
order by post count
see if #13 seems particularly like lurkerscum, otherwise give them a slanktown pass for d1
lynch in the 8-12 range
glgl
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Nancy Drew 39
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Post Post #17  (ISO)  » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:47 pm

No, I should have clarified. I mean wrt meta. People’s posting activity can be affected by a lot of things and every game, I’ve seen this used as a scumtell, it’s been wrong.

Thing with Nancy is we just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it.

(I'm slightly scared of Nancy)
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Post Post #18  (ISO)  » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:24 pm

it's person to person and context matters.

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Post Post #19  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:44 am

Being too "town" as scum since the start of the game can develop more serious issue in the long run than if you're nulltown and slowly gain towncredit

reasons:

1.i f you drive a town lynch and you're too "townish", you'll get more discredited and maybe paranoia suspected (what is a lot worse to get out of than a more objective suspicious)

2. if you stay alive for too long and town is skeptical, you're probably at least getting suspected, and probably lynched

3. if you're the "towniest" one alive, you need to constantly keep it up if you don't want to be in the spotlight, and your mistakes becomes more visible

so yeah, one my unpopular opinions I think

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Post Post #20  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:39 am

In post 15, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:This isn’t unpopular but reading anyone based on activity levels is bs. More mislynches come from that than anything else.

Unfortunately, people with investigations want the glory of catching scum and so they target players who are scummy. Investigations are better used to sort the low activity players. Or at times, a towny looking player who has so taken over that they'd never be lynched. But, investigations get wasted on people who could be lynched anyway.

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Post Post #21  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:48 am

Investigations targeting people who are harder to read is not a bad thing

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Post Post #22  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:05 am

Particularly in smaller games, where clearing an easy mislynch can make things very difficult for scum.

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Post Post #23  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:04 pm

In post 21, Wisdom wrote:Investigations targeting people who are harder to read is not a bad thing


Or anyone you scumread who town is probably never going to lynch.

Thing with Nancy is we just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it.

(I'm slightly scared of Nancy)
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Post Post #24  (ISO)  » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:52 pm

5) anyone who says that they don't bus unless they need to or not at all is essentially claiming that they are a scum player with a narrow range of games that they are able to play

I mean, that's technically true, but I know some old-school players who have fairly successful wolf games and abide by this mentality. I agree that it's limiting, though, at least in theory.


4) fluffposting contains just as much alignment indicative information as walls and cases and is more difficult for most players to fake

Think it depends on the player for this. I know some players that struggle as a wolf to produce content, and other wolves that struggle to fit in early game with joking around/having a normal tone.


3) looking towny as scum is either the least or the second least important scum skill next to imitating your towngame despite the heavy value most assign to it

It's hard for me to determine this without knowing exactly what/how many skill sets you think there are, but I think there is a fairly decent amount of value to this? I'm struggling to see how you can say this isn't important. I'm all for the mentality that a scum player needs to get the job done at all costs, but surely you think that not appearing to be wolfy is at least somewhat significant?

2) energy, charisma, and time to post in thread are in most cases the factors that determine whether a player is lynched or not, not towniness of posts.

I agree on this one. Flat out. Although I would ironically say this holds true on other sites more than mafiascum (for example, a lot of other sites literally sort by postcount to get a general base for their reads)

1) MS's high replace rate is a blessing in disguise, except when it gets to the point where games are bleeding people faster than they can replace

??? What. How is this a real thought. RC wolfing tbh

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