2019 Mafia Meta

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2019 Mafia Meta

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:41 pm

Post by Zulfy »

Seeing as it's been years since I've played Mafia online I'd like to know how if at all the meta has changed.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:04 pm

Post by the worst »

probably!

What are your experiences with site meta and like do you have any questions for people who play a lot? or just wondering how the game of mafia is played in 2019?

the frequently asked mafia theory thread might give some like random insights into how people approach stuff maybe?

sorry for the lame answer it's quite a broad question!
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:13 pm

Post by Zulfy »

I guess I'm just wondering which roles are considered bullshit. From what I remember Cop wasn't supposed to be used, no one liked to play SK, Vigilantes shouldn't be more than 1 shot, that sort of stuff.
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:53 pm

Post by skitter30 »

Are you talking about playing a game (ie what sort of behaviors you can expect from current players) or designing a setup (ie what roles you should avoid if you dont want the players to be mad at you)?
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:00 pm

Post by skitter30 »

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=76192
This might be helpful, it outlines which roles are considered normal these days
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'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me

'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA

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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:37 pm

Post by Buki »

In post 2, Zulfy wrote:From what I remember Cop wasn't supposed to be used
here's something that shouldn't have been changed maybe...
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:02 am

Post by Zulfy »

In post 3, skitter30 wrote:Are you talking about playing a game (ie what sort of behaviors you can expect from current players) or designing a setup (ie what roles you should avoid if you dont want the players to be mad at you)?
Yeah the latter. Thanks for the link
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:30 am

Post by skitter30 »

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'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me

'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me

'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA

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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:10 am

Post by callforjudgement »

People stiil dislike full Cops. However, it's been recognised that quite a bit of town power is typically required in a setup for town to have a reasonable chance at winning (either that, or the scumteam needs to be weaker than a vanilla scumteam). So you'll often see games containing a surprisingly large number of mid-power town roles.
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:24 am

Post by mastina »

This is an apt description of games these days:
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:44 am

Post by the worst »

In post 8, callforjudgement wrote:People stiil dislike full Cops. However, it's been recognised that quite a bit of town power is typically required in a setup for town to have a reasonable chance at winning (either that, or the scumteam needs to be weaker than a vanilla scumteam). So you'll often see games containing a surprisingly large number of mid-power town roles.
This is a good call, completely agree with cfj's comments.

It's not uncommon to see a higher number of more gated town power roles, and often less conventional ways of clearing townies rather than traditional alignment cops. Even where reasonably strong investigatives are used they're often like e.g. neapolitans, vanilla cops, trackers, etc.

It may be worth expecting the unexpected? And also like always mod ISOing recently finished games and stuff too I suppos
mastina wrote:This is an apt description of games these days:
Also true. :shifty:
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:31 am

Post by callforjudgement »

In post 2, Zulfy wrote:I guess I'm just wondering which roles are considered bullshit. From what I remember Cop wasn't supposed to be used, no one liked to play SK, Vigilantes shouldn't be more than 1 shot, that sort of stuff.
Answering this more directly:

So frowned upon that you'll have to declare them in advance (and then nobody will play your game): Cults (or any other mid-game alignment change), moderator lies other than those caused by roles like Miller/Godfather, any situation where a player is mislead as to their own win condition, and direct moderator influence to rebalance a game while it's ongoing.

Things that you don't have to declare in advance, but will annoy many players if they find themself in a setup with them unexpectedly: multiball (i.e. multiple full scum teams); pretty much every standard third party (nowadays, it seems like the most successful third parties are weird one-off ones that fit the game); investigations that give misleading results without any clues as to the circumstances that would cause those results (e.g. Gunsmith false positives are OK because players are expecting those and know the circumstances in which they happen, Cop false positives caused by a self-aware Miller is OK because a townie had the information about what could go wrong and could have claimed it, Cop false positives caused by a Tailor will annoy a lot of people unless at least one townie had specific information that it could happen). Some setup reviewers go as far as warning about combinations such as Town Roleblocker with Mafia Strongman (as if the Strongman performs a kill while being roleblocked, players may conclude that they can't possibly be scum).

Over-centralising roles such as unrestricted Vigilantes, Cops and Town Watchers fall into the category of "things that some players dislike, but others are fine with". It's also been recognised that it's quite hard to balance a game that contains such roles, as you need to allow for them dying early or not dying at all. As such, you'll find that they're rarely used in unrestricted form (although placing modifiers on them is common). That said, there are all sorts of other roles that players dislike, e.g. some players dislike playing VT, some dislike playing power roles, many dislike playing scum; at some point you'll discover you can't keep everyone happy.
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:30 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

In post 6, Zulfy wrote:
In post 3, skitter30 wrote:Are you talking about playing a game (ie what sort of behaviors you can expect from current players) or designing a setup (ie what roles you should avoid if you dont want the players to be mad at you)?
Yeah the latter. Thanks for the link
Also, just having someone competent reviewing a setup for balance is usually a good idea. lolbalance setups definitely get run and usually end up with some group of people pissed off at everyone involved for wasting their time
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:49 am

Post by Persivul »

Loyal fruit vendors are a thing. I was away for awhile, didn't know that, and neglected to claim fruit - really screwed things up.
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:08 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

They'll normally hint at you before accusing you of being scum. (Loud roles would do the same thing, so even if scum catch the hint they'd have a 50:50 guess.)

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