Scummies Nominations 2019

[Flavor Leaf]

I think it’s better to have too many noms than not enough.

+1

Although I disagree with doing something for the sake of getting an award.

I agree with that, but I think personal play is something players should look to better there skills in, and it should normally feel some sort of importance for being Nom’d. As players, if we see something we deem nom worthy, we should nom it.

[Alisae]

The sheer fact you replaced into 28 games warrants a nom.

Actually, something like this would be a decent community contrib nom, imo. Finding replacements can be hard, and someone who did that much to help game integrity deserves the recognition.

shouldn't a certain duckling be keep track of
how many times someone replaces in
how many times someone replaces out
etc etc

[Alisae]

I'm saying that as if Duckling will read this thread and think "wow, thats a great idea, I should be doing that"

[Jingle]

You think tw does his job? I thought he was mostly around to make friends and get kidnapped by those friends.

[Jingle]

Oh, also, speaking as someone who dropped the ball epicly on judging the scummies last year, I felt there was a lack of options when it came to Paperback Writer and Best 3p. The noms we had were good, but I feel like there definitely could have been more noms. So... Nom those things.

[Firebringer]

Also I think the fact that White Knight is pretty much treated as just another Moment Brilliance variation is a problem so I think people need to stop considering that as part of the nom and we shouldn't be nomming people for just coming into a game and blowing it up.

But given site culture I doubt that will happen and the award is basically going to be Moment of Brilliance but the person replaced in!

Edit: to clarify I think white knight should be rewarding what I think is important about repalcements and the fact that they are helping to improve the game state and game integrity, but I think it only really is awarding good play so its basically a play award disguised as something else and it kind of either shouldn't exist or should just be labelled as "best replacement based on play" instead of what it is now.

[Flavor Leaf]

White knight Replacement award should be body of work rather than individual performance is what you’re saying, right? I agree with that.

[Alisae]

Oh, also, speaking as someone who dropped the ball epicly on judging the scummies last year, I felt there was a lack of options when it came to Paperback Writer and Best 3p. The noms we had were good, but I feel like there definitely could have been more noms. So... Nom those things.

The more people who are interested in the scummies and play/watch/mod games, the more people who will want to see play in those games and go "I want to nominate that" thus resulting in more nominations.

3rd Party is always kinda a hard one considering they're rare.
Paperback is just people not appreciating flavor tbh, because rarely do you see people who actually appreciate appreciate flavor. NO ONE appreciates graphics that were done just for that game (speaking from my own experience, I few games I did art for and modded, I started realizing that it was way more easier to just slap an image found on the internet then to make something that no one will care about)

[Firebringer]

White knight Replacement award should be body of work rather than individual performance is what you’re saying, right? I agree with that.

Yeah basically,

I think single game noms can be nominated but I think if your central reasoning for nomming a player is "This guy came in the game, kicked ass and took over that game" you are kind of just rewarding play not the aspects of replacing in which is about doing a service to game and mods. And then my question for if kicking as is your reasoning then "how is that different than a moment of brilliance?"

[Firebringer]

Just reading the description of the game you are nommed for Jingle, I would say that fits way more with Moment of Brilliance than White Knight even though you didn't win the game.

[Alisae]

Also I think the fact that White Knight is pretty much treated as just another Moment Brilliance variation is a problem so I think people need to stop considering that as part of the nom and we shouldn't be nomming people for just coming into a game and blowing it up.

But given site culture I doubt that will happen and the award is basically going to be Moment of Brilliance but the person replaced in!

Edit: to clarify I think white knight should be rewarding what I think is important about repalcements and the fact

that they are helping to improve the game state and game integrity

, but I think it only really is awarding good play so its basically a play award disguised as something else and it kind of either shouldn't exist or should just be labelled as "best replacement based on play" instead of what it is now.

Thats what its about yeah. How else are you going to improve a gamestate or its integrity? Like, to improve the gamestate or intergrity, you need to be a postive change on the game. And there's only really 1 real way to do this and thats through play (unless there's something else I'm just not considering)

If there's a case that comes up where a replacement made the game just better to be in and better to play, then nominate that.
The only scenario I can think of off the top of my head where you replace in, no one wants to play the game, and you replacing in got people to play the game in a way that was healthy.
I'm sure there are other scenarios, but that was the first one that came to my mind.
Also kinda wanna empathize the healthy part, screaming and demanding people to play the game in a way thats unpleasant is not healthy, and why would you want to nominate that? Thats encouraging this behavoir which isn't pleasant. If ur able to do get people to play the game in this scenario where its pleasant to want to play the game and you want to play it, then thats worth a nom.

[Firebringer]

You are defining positive change on the game as being interchangable with playing really well. When the two aren't.

You can be positive influence on game and not play well.
You can be positive influence and play well.

And only the second gets noms. The first nobody cares about enough to nom.

[Alisae]

This is the first sentence of the Description of White Knight

This award is awarded to a player who replaced into a game and was able to make a sizable contribution to the game after replacing in.

Helping to improve the gamestate and intergrity is a sizable contribution to the game (assuming it was after replacing in). The examples provided on what that may look like.

This is also a sentence thats important

maybe just coming in and taking a game from miserable to enjoyable.

I feel like this also covers what you want to empahize the most I think?

[Firebringer]

Like the noms for white knight should be something more like "before this person replaced in. I was considering abandoning the game because I couldn't deal with it. And this person re-energized me to continue playing".

No one describes that, and I think thats the penultimate reason for this award existence. Someone came into the game and turned a terrible game into a fun one. One that everyone wanted to leave into one they could continue to the end. Not just someone who went in and dominated the game through good play as in they were influential to the game in away of having impact on the end of game outcome.

[Alisae]

You are defining positive change on the game as being interchangable with playing really well. When the two aren't.

You can be positive influence on game and not play well.

.

I would like to hear more about the bolded.

And only the second gets noms. The first nobody cares about enough to nom.

People tend to like things that stand out. Good play usually stands out more then not.

[Firebringer]

This is the first sentence of the Description of White Knight

This award is awarded to a player who replaced into a game and was able to make a sizable contribution to the game after replacing in.

Helping to improve the gamestate and intergrity is a sizable contribution to the game (assuming it was after replacing in). The examples provided on what that may look like.

This is also a sentence thats important

maybe just coming in and taking a game from miserable to enjoyable.

I feel like this also covers what you want to empahize the most I think?

I am telling you Alisae. No one is nomming someone for their positive influence they are nomming people who did a massive turn around on games in game outcome. Not on game enjoyment or helping the mod out.

[Alisae]

Like the noms for white knight should be something more like "before this person replaced in. I was considering abandoning the game because I couldn't deal with it. And this person re-energized me to continue playing".

No one describes that, and I think thats the penultimate reason for this award existence. Someone came into the game and turned a terrible game into a fun one. One that everyone wanted to leave into one they could continue to the end. Not just someone who went in and dominated the game through good play as in they were influential to the game in away of having impact on the end of game outcome.

I would love to see nominations like this!

[the worst]

that's exactly why jingle deserved his nom imo
scum outplayed town mechanically and ducked the mechsolve and outplayed in day play but Jingle's rep in was ++++cohesion and funness

[Alisae]

No one is nomming someone for their positive influence they are nomming people who did a massive turn around on games in game outcome.

1st. That IS positive influence
2nd. We only really have 1 person nominated atm, so just going by what you think people will do, and how you think people will act is kinda hasty. I that you be the change you want to be here, if you want to push this award to go in this direction, nominate people for this award who you feel like fit the mindset of "before this person replaced in. I was considering abandoning the game because I couldn't deal with it. And this person re-energized me to continue playing".

[Firebringer]

good talk

[Jingle]

I feel awkward weighing in here, but I will say that A. I see FB's point (and agree to the point. It's way cooler to replace in and defuse a tense situation than to replace in and immediately win the game for town) and B. I think I'd prefer not to win if that means there are more people replacing into games.

I do support changing it to a body of work though.

[Alisae]

Okay, stupid question, but where is the respect for replacements coming from?
Like, while I do have the urge to replace in a game sometimes, I usually do it because of the playerlist, or I just so happen to be following along so its convient for me, or I like the mod and the game looks interesting.
Like, I'm kind of interested in reasons why ywall replace into games, because I really do not think the first thought is "I'm going to be the hero that saves this game and makes it enjoyable again."

[mastina]

I had I thought I had a shot for and was really attempting to get (I replaced into 28 games in a year in hopes that would increase my chances),

And therein lies the problem.

This is not something given to those who try for it.

This is something given to those who earned it.

It is also not a body of work award; it is for a single game, making it an award based around your quality, not your quantity.

[Firebringer]

I had I thought I had a shot for and was really attempting to get (I replaced into 28 games in a year in hopes that would increase my chances),

And therein lies the problem.

This is not something given to those who try for it.

This is something given to those who earned it.

It is also not a body of work award; it is for a single game, making it an award based around your quality, not your quantity.

This is garbage.

[mastina]

White knight Replacement award should be body of work rather than individual performance is what you’re saying, right? I agree with that.

Everyone advocating for the award was HARD against that, and I will defend that stance.

It absolutely

should NOT

be a body of work award.

Specifically because quality of replacement > quantity of replacements.

I'd rather have a person replace in once and have that player absolutely be an amazing addition to the game...
...Than see a player replace into twenty games and be mediocre-at-best in all of those games.

If the award were body of work, it would by default go to the people replacing in the most--which is not something in of itself we should be rewarding. It's the quality of the replacement that counts.