Self-Voting Thoughts

[Enter]

Please keep discussion for the way we're recording self-voting statistics as well as any thoughts on self-voting here, instead of the other thread.

Thank you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Oh okay, better.

[Persivul]

Three steps for self voting:

1. Think about why you're about to self vote.

2. Don't do it.

3. Figure out another way to accomplish the goals in step 1.

[Persivul]

Regarding the stats: Compiling publicly doesn't do any good. Once a trend is known publicly, people will play against it. You can only get value from such things if you do them privately.

[BuJaber]

There you go. Discussion over.

[Ramcius]

Why self-voting as a scum is bad?

[Alisae]

Three steps for self voting:

1. Think about why you're about to self vote.

2. Don't do it.

3. Figure out another way to accomplish the goals in step 1.

1. Its deadline and you need a lynch and no one wants to move votes or play the game

[Alisae]

I can actually bring up 2 games where town selfhammered and it was a good selfhammer.

[Alisae]

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=71389 - Alisae, Town
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=71107 - Desperado, Town

the context for these is very similar: its deadline a lynch is needed and no one wants to switch votes or wagons

This is from memory so stuff is vague but that should sum it up

[Ramcius]

I'd take loss in such situation - I'd ask myself "Is winning one game is worth of making a precedent for future selfhammers as a town?" and my answer is no

[Persivul]

I can actually bring up 2 games where town selfhammered and it was a good selfhammer.

The game in which you did - town lost. So you have one at best.

I'm sure that out of the thousands of games that have been played here over the years, there's been some self hammers that worked. My guess is that:
- those are a pretty small fraction of all self hammers, and
- in most cases, the same goals could have been achieved by other means.

[Alisae]

The game in which you did - town lost. So you have one at best.

here was the circumstance:
Its Matrix6, D2
A 1v1 was forced that day between me and scum
one of us had to be lynched
and no one wanted to move votes around

if town no lynch, that would have been extremely bad for the game.
You're decently good so I'm not going to explain why that was bad there.
It was either self hammer or no lynch
I took self hammer.

result doesn't mean much there.

[Ramcius]

Ali, are you making a habit of selfhammering in newbie games? At first I thought it was our newbie game

[Alisae]

dude I was awful at mafia back then holy shit

[Alisae]

I will have you know out of all of the 9 newbies games I played, I only won one of them and I selfhammered in 2 of the games I lost

[Ramcius]

ok, that joke was terrible, sorry

on topic, you should choose no lynch over ML or at least force someone else to hammer - that way surviving people will have 1 more person on ML wagon and more info to work with

[Alisae]

no it was a really funny joke actually

you should choose no lynch over ML or at least force someone else to hammer

no lynch is bad because that prolongs the 1v1 into MyLo. As in literally, as soon as 1 flipped, the other was outed/cleared. This causes town to lose with 2 scum alive where as lynching in the 1v1 means 1 scum alive.
no one was willing to hammer due to town dragging it out. I was being wagoned by 2 scum, 1 town, and everyone else was doing nothing.
Selfhammer was always correct there.

Not to mention a hammer by someone else doesn't mean anything if scum are engaged and already wagoning the person they need dead, scum were probably already on the wagon anyways. Scum wasn't going to hammer, it was always a town that would hammer in that scenario.

[Creature]

Self-voting aka "I'm right you're not"

[Ramcius]

no it was a really funny joke actually

you should choose no lynch over ML or at least force someone else to hammer

no lynch is bad because that prolongs the 1v1 into MyLo. As in literally, as soon as 1 flipped, the other was outed/cleared. This causes town to lose with 2 scum alive where as lynching in the 1v1 means 1 scum alive.
no one was willing to hammer due to town dragging it out. I was being wagoned by 2 scum, 1 town, and everyone else was doing nothing.
Selfhammer was always correct there.

Not to mention a hammer by someone else doesn't mean anything if scum are engaged and already wagoning the person they need dead, scum were probably already on the wagon anyways. Scum wasn't going to hammer, it was always a town that would hammer in that scenario.

Was it CC? Then I can see, why one would want to die to confirm other person as a scum

It doesn't matter who hammers - town or scum. Hammer means that you can apply pressure on whoever hammered and get better read on them, which is always positive

I was trying to speak more from general perspective on the matter than this very niche example. This thread is about future games and using something that is not likely to come up again isn't educational/helpful

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: RC

[MathBlade]

I can actually bring up 2 games where town selfhammered and it was a good selfhammer.

One of them was mine where it enabled a lylo that would have been a loss otherwise

[Alisae]

I can actually bring up 2 games where town selfhammered and it was a good selfhammer.

One of them was mine where it enabled a lylo that would have been a loss otherwise

oh yeah I just remember that
yep, thats also a good example.

Nightless games tho are like never ran anymore.

[chennisden]

VOTE: RC

lynching yourself doesn't help your PoE, but it helps other people's PoE

if it's divided between two worlds and nobody is getting hammered, self hammering might be ok

self-votes that arent hammers, idk

[RadiantCowbells]

my poe is the only poe that matters

[chennisden]

VOTE: RC then pls unvote urself