New Newbie Setup

[Not Known 15]

Any news?

[popsofctown]

RC's design has been implemented in the newbie queue (with the heavy B2 intact I believe)

[Skygazer]

i like the name of NewD3 because it's new, it's for newbies and rhymes with 2D3

my two cents

[Oversoul]

NuD3?

[Not Known 15]

These poor newbies playing JK/FN...

[emps]

ooh boy i have great experience with jk vt

its hella townsided imo

[popsofctown]

I don't think we will be able to work out something better than this until the site comes around to deciding newbie games shouldn't be semi-open. There are only so many knobs you can turn.

[OkaPoka]

or you can raise it from 9p to 13p

[popsofctown]

I'm not sure how much easier a 13p matrix is to develop. It is also suboptimal for the the newbie queue's "flake grate" purpose if people still consider that part of the purpose (more players harmed by each flake)

[OkaPoka]

itd be more time consuming to develop but i think its easier to have less swingy setups that feel unbalanced bc u can win by n1 as ut stands

as for replacements

shorter deadlines reduced replacement rates and having more people means more activity means less downtime for newbies who feel deadlines are zzz since a lot of newbies come from shorter deadline sites

[callforjudgement]

I don't think we will be able to work out something better than this until the site comes around to deciding newbie games shouldn't be semi-open. There are only so many knobs you can turn.

Do you mean moving it to a Closed?

The only reason they're Semi-Open at the moment is that we couldn't make a full Open work (in the sense of not requiring extensive strategy knowledge and having fairly straightforward roles and win conditions).

[chennisden]

can we just have people designing closed newbie setups? it's not that hard.

it doesn't even have to be all one or the other. the point should be where >60% of the people are newbies, that's it. just because newbies want to play with others less familiar with the game doesn't mean we should throw a townsided setup at them (ahem, 2d3) because fuck it.

NewD3 is definitely a step in the right direction.

[popsofctown]

Either closed or fully open. If fully open really can't work, then sure, closed setups with only reasonably basic roles available.

Newbies who are overwhelmed by the size of a 9 cell matrix are -already- playing a closed setup anyway, basically.

[PenguinPower]

can we just have people designing closed newbie setups? it's not that hard.

it doesn't even have to be all one or the other. the point should be where >60% of the people are newbies, that's it. just because newbies want to play with others less familiar with the game doesn't mean we should throw a townsided setup at them (ahem, 2d3) because fuck it.

NewD3 is definitely a step in the right direction.

Are you volunteering?

[callforjudgement]

can we just have people designing closed newbie setups? it's not that hard.

It's a bit harder if you want to avoid the newbies completely screwing them up. The big advantage of a semi-open is that you can have experienced players explain how to play all the possible roles in advance. I've arguably been involved with

most

of this site's closed normal 9ps (which is what a closed Newbie would be like), and it's very common to have considerations like "that player wouldn't have thought of fakeclaiming that role, therefore it must be a trueclaim" dominate the balance of a setup. (Meanwhile, if an experienced player gets the role in question, suddenly it's useless because maybe they

would

have thought of fakeclaiming it.)

[chennisden]

can we just have people designing closed newbie setups? it's not that hard.

it doesn't even have to be all one or the other. the point should be where >60% of the people are newbies, that's it. just because newbies want to play with others less familiar with the game doesn't mean we should throw a townsided setup at them (ahem, 2d3) because fuck it.

NewD3 is definitely a step in the right direction.

Are you volunteering?

if such a thing happens, yes i will be spamming setups for the newbies like i spam posts in my games.

[PenguinPower]

You should join the NRG then, because if we ever go that route that is where the setups would need to come from.

[chennisden]

can we just have people designing closed newbie setups? it's not that hard.

It's a bit harder if you want to avoid the newbies completely screwing them up. The big advantage of a semi-open is that you can have experienced players explain how to play all the possible roles in advance. I've arguably been involved with

most

of this site's closed normal 9ps (which is what a closed Newbie would be like), and it's very common to have considerations like "that player wouldn't have thought of fakeclaiming that role, therefore it must be a trueclaim" dominate the balance of a setup. (Meanwhile, if an experienced player gets the role in question, suddenly it's useless because maybe they

would

have thought of fakeclaiming it.)

Limiting what can happen in newbies (having a set of stricter guidelines) would be nice. No multitasking compulsive visitor fruit vendors, GiF.

I also think it should be a

combination

of both, so if newbies want to make that distinction for whatever reason they can.

[popsofctown]

I'm not convinced a fully open newbie is impossible, either, though.

[RadiantCowbells]

A continual stream of 9p setups within narrow confines is hypothetically the optimal solution but I think in practice it would be painful for both the NRG and the newbies

[popsofctown]

I am going to grind my SUPP score up to 5.0 then get into the NRG then make all the newbies play vig setups. It will be utopia.

[Skygazer]

what about introducing some basic modifiers into the semiclosed setups to bring EV's closer to balanced? i mean the only one i can think of off hand that could be suitable for newbie games is x-shot

a ton of normal games have roles with some sort of gating mechanism so i feel like introducing x-shot into newbies could be useful from like a pedagogical standpoint as well

[Not Known 15]

what about introducing some basic modifiers into the semiclosed setups to bring EV's closer to balanced? i mean the only one i can think of off hand that could be suitable for newbie games is x-shot

a ton of normal games have roles with some sort of gating mechanism so i feel like introducing x-shot into newbies could be useful from like a pedagogical standpoint as well

X-shot just doesn't work well with 9p. Because 9p doesn't last long.

[Plum]

One-shot should be fine, no?

[popsofctown]

Yeah it should be, I was 2 shot doc in an 18p and that seemed about right, 1 shot anything in a 9p should be about right.