Anti-wincon Mafia?

[Nancy Drew 39]

A game where players are miraculously trying to win while actually required to gamethrow.

So kind of like some variation on a multiplayer version of all jesters, kind of?

[Nancy Drew 39]

This is a serious thread btw. Maybe it should be posted in setup ideas but I was genuinely curious how people would feel about this type of game.

[Gamma Emerald]

How would it work

[Ramcius]

It sounds like pretty much any regular game to me

[Nero Cain]

I mean, don't we already have this? Most players don't play to their wincon anyways.

[TemporalLich]

so, mafia wins if all mafiosi die, and town wins if the mafia achieve parity?

I think the Mafia would need a compulsive nightkill with the restriction that they may not target other mafiosi, there might be a breaking strategy where the Mafia "gamethrows" by hard-bussing and nightkilling their own otherwise.

edit: wincons might still be normal.

If so, it would be an interesting marathon game tbh if you just need to gamethrow but wincons are normal (might be townsided though!)

but it wouldn't be a good theme game imo.

Feel free to call "reversed wincon mafia" Misère Mafia, because that's what I'd call it, though this may be outside the scope of this thread.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah that's not it chief
It's trying to fulfill standard wincon while also throwing the game

[callforjudgement]

so, mafia wins if all mafiosi die, and town wins if the mafia achieve parity?

With victory conditions Open and self-aware (i.e. everyone knows that town win by lynching each other, so the scum try to look town in order to get lynched), the game works pretty well, but you have to run it as Nightless. It's been run a few times, normally at vanilla 6:2 (and incidentally is one of my favourite setups to play in). It is probably townsided, though, so maybe 7:2 would work better.

[TemporalLich]

Yeah that's not it chief
It's trying to fulfill standard wincon while also throwing the game

would be an interesting game but I can't figure out how intentional gamethrowing would affect the EV

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually isn't that just the setup Vote For Town?

[callforjudgement]

Actually isn't that just the setup Vote For Town?

Yes, that's the setup I was describing in #7.

[Not_Mafia]

Step 1: Pick any set-up
Step 2: Run it on Mafia Universe
Step 3: Mission achieved

[Nancy Drew 39]

Something tells me, you and RC aren’t exactly, “fans”.

[SuicideJunkie]

I ran some Reversi games on the XKCD forum a while back.

There is an interesting tension in that, as you start losing, your faction gains more and more control over the vote.
You also have to be very careful, since a single outed Mafia can lose the game for their team. A limited friendly-fire or a redirection ability mitigates that somewhat.
Mafia faction kill mostly needs to be limited; no self-targeting, no friendly-fire at all, one-shot, etc. Same with SK.
Doctors likely need to be obligatory as well.

Wincons:
Town = You personally win when the Town faction loses.
Mafia = You personally win when the Mafia faction loses.
Jester = You personally win if you're NKed or Survive
etc.

Game ends as in a normal game (Mafia faction win therefore Mafia players lose, Town players win) once Mafia controls half the vote. (Most role configs would result in a stalemate or perverse incentives if played out to the end)


The Ghostbusters Reversi game for example was themed around 2 Ghostbusters and 5 Ghosts trying to escape the ghost vault after an accident.
GB were mafia, both needed to escape.
Ghosts were town, trying to get to 50% player count to achieve a handwavy pseudoscience ectoplasmic pressure etc win.

Both GB and the 5-player test reversi game ended up coming down to the wire in a 2v1 showdown.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I ran some Reversi games on the XKCD forum a while back.

There is an interesting tension in that, as you start losing, your faction gains more and more control over the vote.
You also have to be very careful, since a single outed Mafia can lose the game for their team. A limited friendly-fire or a redirection ability mitigates that somewhat.
Mafia faction kill mostly needs to be limited; no self-targeting, no friendly-fire at all, one-shot, etc. Same with SK.
Doctors likely need to be obligatory as well.

Wincons:
Town = You personally win when the Town faction loses.
Mafia = You personally win when the Mafia faction loses.
Jester = You personally win if you're NKed or Survive
etc.

Game ends as in a normal game (Mafia faction win therefore Mafia players lose, Town players win) once Mafia controls half the vote. (Most role configs would result in a stalemate or perverse incentives if played out to the end)


The Ghostbusters Reversi game for example was themed around 2 Ghostbusters and 5 Ghosts trying to escape the ghost vault after an accident.
GB were mafia, both needed to escape.
Ghosts were town, trying to get to 50% player count to achieve a handwavy pseudoscience ectoplasmic pressure etc win.

Both GB and the 5-player test reversi game ended up coming down to the wire in a 2v1 showdown.

Sounds awesome! Where can I sign up for this?

[Nancy Drew 39]

This thread was originally intended as a joke btw. But I’ve played a version of reversi chess, where you try to be the first one to lose all of your pieces.