Should PRs flip on death in closed setups?

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Should PRs flip on death in closed setups?

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:16 am

Post by popsofctown »

This is something I've been musing about, for like, a month or two.
When someone dies, the mod posts what they were. The important part is that the dead player's alignment is posted. It's really important to figuring out the game with social deduction. You look at who the dead player was social deducting and getting social deducted by. Alignment should always be posted

But posting the dead player's role helps the players figure out.. how to modhunt the balance of the setup when LyLo or LyLo-X massclaim comes around.

That dynamic seems purely harmful to making the game focused on dayplay social deduction (which is when I think mafia is at its funnest). Arguments about whether the setup could have a second tracker or not aren't that fun.

One could argue that even for those partial to more nightplay than I am, it's still detrimental. Mods have to put less town power in their setups in general because they know how powerful LyLo and LyLo -1 massclaims
are
, accounting for that is part of the process of balancing the setup. If they weren't, there'd be more room to play with.

The counter argument to removing power roles from flips might be that a town would massclaim day 1 to keep from losing the modhunt information to factional nightkills (lynchees would claim at L-1, so whether or not you decided to remove power roles from the flips of players who are lynched would be pretty irrelevant). I think if you run a 14:3 setup that implies very weak power roles that are few and far between that could be true. If there are going to be lots of roles like Neighborizer that are clearly weaker than Innocent Child, then massclaiming before the information can be lost is an upgrade as you clear the slots that seem to fit the massclaim well. But with a usual amount of town power and a usual amount of scum counterplay options (strong, roleblocker, rolestopper), I think the disincentives to day 1 massclaim are strong enough you wouldn't want to do it. And then when massclaim becomes less and less useful for determining how to depict the setup, it could even become unattractive to massclaim in LyLo-X. It will never hurt anything to massclaim in LyLo of course.

Mafia could still be informed of power role flips. This would give mafia even more reliability in generating a plausible claim for massclaim (on top of a broader range of claims being plausible, because no one can be sure whether three sane cops or three fruit vendors have died).

A couple common roles depend on the mod revealing the player's alignment on death for the role to work. Any weak role that wants to soft its target and generate a guilty by dying doesn't work the same anymore. The tactic of staying unclaimed and softing a string of innocent results as sane cop and expecting them to become gospel when you get NKed doesn't work the same anymore. These roles still have other functions.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:09 am

Post by Ramcius »

People are bad at deduction, I thought that was common knowledge
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:48 pm

Post by TemporalLich »

I prefer full reveal to be the norm in games. It's better since it allows mechanical discussion on roles (part of the game imo is setup spec).

Limited Reveal makes investigative roles lack the punch of generating mechanical clears... Other roles will be fine, but an IC in a limited reveal game is something to be afraid of.

Regardless, Limited Reveal should
not
be considered Normal.
time will end
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