The Never Bus Claim
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The Never Bus Claim
If I were to claim that I Never Bus, would I breaking any rules? To me, it seems borderline trust tell. So maybe it could help to take a closer look?
What would be the pros and cons of a Never Bus meta?- Ramcius
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I've seen more than one idea about what a trust tell is. Is there some strict definition somewhere of what a trust tell is, with like requirements and such to be considered a trust tell, for the purpose of identifying if a specific play is allowed or not? Like specifically with the I Never Bus meta?- Something_Smart
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From the wiki:
Claiming to never bus is tricky, because that's not an action you can intentionally choose to take as town.A trust tell fits both of the following criteria:
The player insists that they only do this behavior as a certain alignment, and never as any other alignment.
The player, over the course of multiple games, only does this behavior as a certain alignment, and never as any other alignment.
However, I think that it would be considered a trust tell, where the behavior is "pushing scum"-- assuming that the player has pushed scum as town in the past. It doesn't matter that the player doesn't always push scum as town, or that they don't know they're pushing scum while they're doing it; what matters is that they intentionally take steps to assure that they ONLY push scum as town, and they claim that.It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!- popsofctown
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"Would you bus for the first time in your career if you thought it would win you the game?"
"No, because then I'd lose the ability to tell people I never bus"
That's when it's a trust tell."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- Ramcius
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Trust tell is something you can prove, using your past games and implying you will keep your word in future games is that kind of proof. Asking people to believe your word on blind faith or such isn't trust tell. You don't make any promises, so it's persons choice to believe your word here and now opposed to them believing in your promise, which is trust tell.
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This is the correct answer.In post 5, popsofctown wrote:"Would you bus for the first time in your career if you thought it would win you the game?"
"No, because then I'd lose the ability to tell people I never bus"
That's when it's a trust tell.- Zenith
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So without that convo, it would be allowed?In post 7, Plum wrote:
This is the correct answer.In post 5, popsofctown wrote:"Would you bus for the first time in your career if you thought it would win you the game?"
"No, because then I'd lose the ability to tell people I never bus"
That's when it's a trust tell.- Something_Smart
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More or less. The important part about what pops said is that it concerns the future-- "I've never bussed" is fine, but the instant that you imply anything about future games (that includes the present-tense "I never bus"), you're in trust tell zone.It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!- popsofctown
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If the position you're taking is consistent with that convo, we someone to make that convo with you, then it's a problem, whether or not that exact convo actually happens.In post 8, Zenith wrote:
So without that convo, it would be allowed?In post 7, Plum wrote:
This is the correct answer.In post 5, popsofctown wrote:"Would you bus for the first time in your career if you thought it would win you the game?"
"No, because then I'd lose the ability to tell people I never bus"
That's when it's a trust tell.
"I never bus" implies a trust tell since it isn't an in-meta way to play scum, so an explanation of why you have unusual beliefs on mafia theory would be expected. "Don't worry, that witness won't make it to the court date, the judge agreed the witness's testimony isn't admissible evidence for legal reasons," is swell, "Don't worry, that witness won't make it to the court date" is ominous in what's unspoken."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- RadiantCowbells
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Also usually the argument isn't "I never bus so I can claim a trust tell." It's I never bus because I'm too Mama hen / just don't like bussing people / like the teamwork aspect of scum play. Which isn't really trust telling, if you don't do something as scum for a reason that's not establishing a trust tell.
Actually I got the closest to that with saying that I stopped bussing because I was sick of getting scumread after I correctly lynched scum. But I went back on it and always intended on going back on it at some point. Hmm.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.- Something_Smart
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Idk I still think it's sketchy to say "I pushed scum and I never bus, so you should have me as locktown." Even the people who have reasons for not bussing need to admit that it's a general principle that can be broken.In post 12, RadiantCowbells wrote:Also usually the argument isn't "I never bus so I can claim a trust tell." It's I never bus because I'm too Mama hen / just don't like bussing people / like the teamwork aspect of scum play. Which isn't really trust telling, if you don't do something as scum for a reason that's not establishing a trust tell.It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!- popsofctown
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I "like"/"don't like" kind of already implies you're not dealing in absolutes anymore.
If you state nothing but the conclusion and want people to fill in some blanks that's where I'd be worried."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- Ramcius
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But if it's not true then why though likeIn post 13, Something_Smart wrote:Idk I still think it's sketchy to say "I pushed scum and I never bus, so you should have me as locktown." Even the people who have reasons for not bussing need to admit that it's a general principle that can be broken.
I don't see a problem with someone falsely claiming themselves conftown lol2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.- RadiantCowbells
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That would more accurately fall under the category of deliberate gamethrowing than trust tells and in this case, it’s the intentional gamethrowing that ought to be actionable.In post 5, popsofctown wrote:"Would you bus for the first time in your career if you thought it would win you the game?"
"No, because then I'd lose the ability to tell people I never bus"
That's when it's a trust tell.**********We just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it. (I'm slightly scared of Nancy)~the worst*******Nancy is pretty heavenly ngl~CheekyTeekyNancy-scum feels like a hot knife slicing through butter. Nancy-town feels like a magnifying glass in the sun glaring down at an insect.~Taly- popsofctown
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All trust tells require intentional gamethrowing to function. If you only say "I'm a unicorn" as town and never ever post it as scum, the trust value doesn't gain value until you start throwing some games by not posting "I'm a unicorn" as scum when it would win you those games.In post 18, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
That would more accurately fall under the category of deliberate gamethrowing than trust tells and in this case, it’s the intentional gamethrowing that ought to be actionable.In post 5, popsofctown wrote:"Would you bus for the first time in your career if you thought it would win you the game?"
"No, because then I'd lose the ability to tell people I never bus"
That's when it's a trust tell.
There's overlap, yes."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- RadiantCowbells
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VOTE: RadiantCowbellsIn post 20, RadiantCowbells wrote:I'm a unicorn.**********We just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it. (I'm slightly scared of Nancy)~the worst*******Nancy is pretty heavenly ngl~CheekyTeekyNancy-scum feels like a hot knife slicing through butter. Nancy-town feels like a magnifying glass in the sun glaring down at an insect.~Taly- Nancy Drew 39
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I train.In post 22, RadiantCowbells wrote:everyone who ever said they don't bus ended up bussing.**********We just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it. (I'm slightly scared of Nancy)~the worst*******Nancy is pretty heavenly ngl~CheekyTeekyNancy-scum feels like a hot knife slicing through butter. Nancy-town feels like a magnifying glass in the sun glaring down at an insect.~Taly - Nancy Drew 39
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