A Few Final Thoughts

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A Few Final Thoughts

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:55 pm

Post by Enter »

I realize
that this likely won't matter considering the two games I'm in will be my last two games on site (as far as my intentions are concerned), but I had a few thoughts that some people might see and agree with, and maybe this is for the better. Sometimes a little bit of feedback is helpful. I'd like to preface this, however, with the disclaimer that some people might feel offended or even disagree with me to the point at which they feel the need to write some strongly worded message discussing how little of a human being I am and how much I deserve to die. If you feel that way, or if you feel you might feel that way, I recommend not reading this post, because it will likely get your undergarments all wadded up and that's just a waste of energy for both you and me. That said, if this opening paragraph makes you angry, feel free to report any and all posts I make - A site ban would be a good excuse to not have to finish the two mafia games I'm currently in and be over with this already. Kidding. Kind of.


This post was made from memory and is quite possibly entirely incorrect.


I've been playing mafia
on site on and off under different (known) accounts. My first account was Tr1ckster, who I played as in 2014 with people such as Nachomomma88, Moonlight, and other names that became more recognizable as time went on, but weren't particularly at the time. Randomidget was in my first newbie game, either on this account or the other one. I was very bad back then. I wasn't the worst mafia player in the game, but I very likely would have been if site culture then had been similar to the way it is now. I was reckless, uncomposed, and provocative (which was only somewhat good), but I told myself and others that the way I played was intentional, because I had justified it to myself in my head. I thought I was pretty darn great and that people should just get over the way I play because I was some sort of prodigy that was changing the way mafia was played. I thought that because my posting was somewhat spammy (it was nowhere near as spammy as mafia play is in general now, but that's due to a technological and cultural shift that I'll get into more later) that I was the only player in the game that actually cared. I was wrong. I was unnecessarily aggressive, I didn't understand what differentiated a scum player from a town player, I just went after things that I didn't like and called them scum because that made sense to me. I had the attention span of a squirrel on crack and the memory of a goldfish with amnesia. I was terrible.

In 2016, I came
back to the site as Extrapolated Eagle. My play here was also very bad. I remember one specific game - YCBA IV - was particularly bad. I remembered it as the game where I just should have fixed my play. I remembered it with silver linings on a pedestal, as a good game that all future games should mimic.

About six months ago
I went back and re-skimmed that game. I was wrong. So yes, in that game, I did argue back and forth with TSO. In that game, I did successfully pull a gambit. And I did catch Elyse as scum and push her as such. But other than her, my reads were bad. I committed many of the crimes I now condemn. I self-voted and asked to be lynched. I was emotionally volatile. I let other players drive me to the edge. While I started out with good play (the reason I was right on Elyse), I confirmation biased myself into reading other players very poorly. I was argumentative with TSO in ways that I probably could have just calmed down and talked to him. I raged about the game afterwards with Elyse and others, taking away from their win. I acted childishly and inappropriately. It was hard for me to read and accept that, because I hadn't remembered that game as that poorly when I came back.

Now I'm here again.
Now I'm about to leave for the final time. What's different? Well, I'll get into the meat of the post before I talk about me any more.

Let's start with mafia.
Reminder that this is all based off my memory and could be completely wrong.

I think the cell phone revolutionized mafia for better or for worse. In 2014, spam posting your train of thought like I did was unheard of. Most players got on the site and posted once, maybe twice a day, with exceptions made for weekends. Staying online to get a response from the person you were angry with was silly, because players played from many different time zones, and almost everyone played from their computer, so posts were longer, made more carefully, and there was more time between responses. You often couldn't know if anyone else would respond, so staying online and waiting for someone could easily turn out to be a waste of your time. Besides, it usually took 30+ minutes to write a response anyways. So the distance between posts was greater, which meant people who played were forced into having more patience (and I think people with less patience just didn't really start, or they started and quickly replaced out). Games were slower, responses were slower, fights were less intense over minute misunderstandings, because players had time to sit and think about what they were writing, and it was often an entire day before they responded, so they also had much more time to cool down. It was so much more efficient to just understand what your rival was saying the first time than it was to skim his posts and write a half-developed response based on what you thought he meant.

Now, players just spam whatever they want whenever they want. Players who post at reasonable intervals are called lurkers and get run over by spastic morons who just post the first thought to come to mind when they see another player's post without really knowing anything about what the intention behind it is. The average player is like worse version of me in 2014, only worse because we are enabled by cell phones to be self-centered close-minded assholes who only read what we want to read when we want to read it. Mafia isn't mafia anymore. It's attention-seeking glory whores throwing half-chewed reads at a wall and hoping they hit gold over the guy next to them, because if they don't one-up everyone in the game, they don't fit the glorified vision of themselves they have in their head. And when we feel insecure about the reads we just threw against a wall, we start calling our strong town reads scum on the off chance we were wrong about them the whole time so we can get that sweet sweet glory gold at the end of the game. It's smashing someone else's head in because they called you out on playing pretty darn poorly and you're pissed because you know you're the best mafia player in the game, just no one has recognized you yet. It's chickens pecking at penguins for being flightless birds, and sometimes it's even children putting their hands in a fire and blaming their parents because the fire is hot. The attention span and self awareness in some players is disgustingly lacking, and I'll admit I've committed an embarrassing number of these crimes. There is just so much going on here, I probably even forgot to mention a few things, but I feel like it's all enabled by site culture. I'll talk about that a little later.

Outside of mafia, site culture seems pretty cancerous to me right now. I was gonna just stay out of the whole politics discussion, but it's become very apparent that there is a large bias in one direction as far as politics are concerned. My advice to people here: Don't bring it up. Don't discuss it. There are a lot of very vocal very toxic very close-minded people on this site that generally agree with what appears to be the political leaning of the moderation team because they're enabled and ignored for their crimes. Trying to have an open and honest discussion in public here is an exercise in masochism. I've seen it happen multiple times, it's just not good. Just in general, in life, though, what I've learned is that most people don't care about your opinion unless they know you anyways. Most discussions worth having are better had in private or between friends. Just don't share your political views and you'll be fine.

Continued later.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:54 pm

Post by Alisae »

Nope, you are nitpicking and biased, I win, bye bye
GTKAS
| here.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:53 pm

Post by Enter »

A person without bias isn't a person.
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:18 pm

Post by Amrun »

Don’t leave. :( I really like you.
I survived
Tigerpocalypse 2011


Fusion Mafia, ongoing now.
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:21 am

Post by Flavor Leaf »

I used to be emotionally volatile and think of myself as a prodigy like 4 years ago onsite, but then I started treating the game itself with respect because at the end of the day, I love mafia. :lol: I enjoy socially interacting with people with a common goal and competition, and as soon as I started to read things on a gamestate level, and accept that everything is just a series of plays, everything got better. To be fair, I went through a lot as a person in general the past 4 years, and grew up in the real world, and I don’t see any reason why it shouldn’t transfer to Mafiascum. I’m still me, and I wouldn’t act that way to people in real life, so why would I here? I don’t mind some friendly arguing, or even some rough competition here and there. I think it’s okay for people to boast about their achievements on site. It is exactly that, achievements. I’m very play orientated nowadays, and I don’t think the correct way to play mafia is black and white. Everyone has different play styles, they should play up their strengths and weakness. I want people to 1-up me. I essentially beg for it. It brings out good competition. At my 5th scum victory in this calendar year, I set a goal for myself to achieve 10 scum victories in the year of 2019, and I worked hard for that, and was super proud to get it. I played a lot of games to make sure somewhere down the line, I’d have the scum games. Not everyone has time for that, obviously. I’m on my phone a lot. I brag, but I’ll brag for other people too.

I want someone else to have a year like that. I want someone to top my year.

A lot of people like to yell and shade me, but I never shade back, at least not in a bad way. I’ll sass people up. I like to think I’m pretty friendly, and the more people on site who value the plays I feel can help work towards the sportsmanship side of things as well.

Basically, value your play, respect the plays of others, be willing to reevaluate reads. I even started correctly reading people better because I figured out they were scum because I town read them, so self awareness is key.

Realize it’s okay to have incorrect reads. Odds are the scum team was making a play specifically so it would happen.

If you’re battling against an Ivysaur in Super Smash Bros, respect its ability to completely control you in the air, and don’t jump into them.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:44 am

Post by OkaPoka »

such slander i dont bully penguin power
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:02 am

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 0, Enter wrote:There are a lot of very vocal very toxic very close-minded people on this site
Yep
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:39 am

Post by chennisden »

Yep yep
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:40 am

Post by chennisden »

I think there are a lot more important things in a game of mafia than winning

Many people forget that
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:59 am

Post by OkaPoka »

whats more important than winning
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:04 am

Post by chennisden »

The journey along the way
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:21 am

Post by Volpe14 »

Enjoying mafia is rough...

I've not completely given up yet but I'm not optimistic about it anymore.

At least swing around for marathons Enter, you know marathons always are a good time around here (one of the reasons that for a relative long time I was only coming for marathons anyway I guess...).

Personally I feel with your issues you would enjoy games more if:

1) You were more selective of the playerlist and only playing with people you know/don't take a issue with the way they play
2) You played smaller games because larger games are almost bound to have too much conflict on it

I don't really agree with everything you said but I can see some valid points.
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:26 am

Post by chennisden »

Play a game with >9 players, hate your life forever
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:31 am

Post by Volpe14 »

I think 9p games up to 13p games with active playerlists can be quite fun/engaging, sometimes even more than large themes. Maybe another good point on trying to play with people you would enjoy to play rather than just join a random game if you've an issue with how most of the current meta is. Dunno.
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:08 am

Post by Fluminator »

I had no idea you were extrapolated eagle! Hi!
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:06 am

Post by Enter »

In post 11, Volpe14 wrote:Enjoying mafia is rough...

I've not completely given up yet but I'm not optimistic about it anymore.

At least swing around for marathons Enter, you know marathons always are a good time around here (one of the reasons that for a relative long time I was only coming for marathons anyway I guess...).

Personally I feel with your issues you would enjoy games more if:

1) You were more selective of the playerlist and only playing with people you know/don't take a issue with the way they play
2) You played smaller games because larger games are almost bound to have too much conflict on it

I don't really agree with everything you said but I can see some valid points.
Sure. Some of it is certain to be personal bias as well as a bit of selective sampling (unintentionally, of course). My perception will likely always at least somewhat differ from most other's anyways.

I'll be here for marathons. Just gimme a heads up.
In post 14, Fluminator wrote:I had no idea you were extrapolated eagle! Hi!
Hello! Long time no speak. How are you?
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:53 am

Post by chennisden »

Marathons are unironically the only good way to play mafia

You screw around a little, someone does something big brain once and you all laugh about it and have a good time.
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:50 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 3, Amrun wrote:Don’t leave. :( I really like you.
^

just avoid games with players that you don't like playing with.
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edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:59 pm

Post by popsofctown »

December 12:
In post 0, Enter wrote:
I realize
that this likely won't matter considering the two games I'm in will be my last two games on site (as far as my intentions are concerned), but I had a few thoughts that some people might see and agree with, and maybe this is for the better.


Now I'm here again.
Now I'm about to leave for the final time.
December 13:
In post 4076, Enter wrote:/in as SE
December 14:
In post 4082, Enter wrote:/out

Why are the dates on these posts in the order they are?
Do you want to play this game, but then remember you're supposed to be mad at this game?
If you still have mixed feelings then why this dramatic "so long and farewell" post?
It's fine to have reasons for quitting mafia and quitting mafia, and it's also fine to not quit mafia, but I always get annoyed by theatrics about a "here's my big huge dramatic departure" when it's less than authentic (I question the pomp even if it is authentic) and uh that's the vibe I get here.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:03 pm

Post by Enter »

In post 18, popsofctown wrote:December 12:
In post 0, Enter wrote:
I realize
that this likely won't matter considering the two games I'm in will be my last two games on site (as far as my intentions are concerned), but I had a few thoughts that some people might see and agree with, and maybe this is for the better.


Now I'm here again.
Now I'm about to leave for the final time.
December 13:
In post 4076, Enter wrote:/in as SE
December 14:
In post 4082, Enter wrote:/out

Why are the dates on these posts in the order they are?
Do you want to play this game, but then remember you're supposed to be mad at this game?
If you still have mixed feelings then why this dramatic "so long and farewell" post?
It's fine to have reasons for quitting mafia and quitting mafia, and it's also fine to not quit mafia, but I always get annoyed by theatrics about a "here's my big huge dramatic departure" when it's less than authentic (I question the pomp even if it is authentic) and uh that's the vibe I get here.
I agree. I also get annoyed by them.

I received several PMs from other people wanting to continue playing with me. That was me trying again and thinking better of it.
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:05 pm

Post by Enter »

I'm being authentic. I don't want to play anymore. I had no intention of playing again. It was brought to my attention that I have recently been playing a different type of game with different people than I'm used to, so I'm giving the old style one more shot.
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:06 pm

Post by Enter »

At the time of making that post I did not want to play mafia any more and had not wanted to for weeks. I still don't really want to, to be honest, but giving the newbie forum a second chance is significantly better than the alternative.
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:27 am

Post by Awoo »

Oh yeah, the politics here is megacancer. If only all of that could just be 100% quarantined to the speakeasy or some other hidden dumpster board, imagine how cool the site would be. Then when someone brings up an opinion, even if it's a popular and trendy opinion, you just say "Nope, go back in the dumpster, I win, bye bye"

Of course I say that because I have nothing but views that would get me banned, and I just want to have a good time with some LSG action and strictly theoretical mafia.
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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:19 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

I really doubt cell/smart phones are the reason people are more spammy now, because like they didn’t become a thing only in 2014 or so, they were around for a fair period before then.

Also I would like to praise Flavor’s post
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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:31 am

Post by Enter »

In post 23, Gamma Emerald wrote:I really doubt cell/smart phones are the reason people are more spammy now, because like they didn’t become a thing only in 2014 or so, they were around for a fair period before then.

Also I would like to praise Flavor’s post
but it was mostly flip phones back then iirc
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