Just like the simulations

[Awoo]

I hate that there is so little literature on this...

[Isis]

Ok there's a dumb showerthought I was having today

In a setup like Goon Goon Doctor VTx6 you definitely ask for claims at E-1 and if someone claims Doctor and there's no counterclaim then you vote elsewhere.

At what point does the power role becomes powerful enough that it's no longer correct to ask for a claim, because it's not worth it to ask for a counterclaim either, because the role is so powerful if it stays hidden?

So like
3 Mafia Goon
1 Publishing Cop
9 VT

For both strategies: the PR crumbs results each day, claims role and all results at ELo -1 when it can't be counterclaimed.
For strategy A: When someone is run up to E1, on Day 1 only, that player claims if they are a cop, then nobody counterclaims, someone else is eliminated, they are NKed that night and only get one result out. If that player is mafia, the claim, the real cop counterclaims, and the mafia is eliminated and the cop gets NKed.
For strategy B: When someone is run up to E1 on Day1 they lay down and die.

Follow up question, does this vary with the number of VTs, can strategy A dominate when the expected number of publishes gets lower, but strategy B dominate when there are more players and it's more likely that the cop can do more work if they don't have to out themselves counterclaiming.

[Isis]

maybe this is a dumb question because it's a false dilemma because you can get a claim D1 and just decide you're not sure if it's true and handle it later, neither eliminating it nor polling for a counterclaim for it.

my understanding of PR setups is consistently weak

[MURDERCAT]

So basically, you prevent the mafia from being able to fake claim to out the cop.
This is an interesting question. Is counter claiming immediately ever actually the best strategy when you could instead just wait and see if the cop claim dies? I wonder if the general strategy in open setups should be to never counterclaim until elo.

pedit yeah I don't think people actually do that though. Also a 1:1 trade is kinda what you hope to get out of a PR (IMO)

[northsidegal]

For strategy A: When someone is run up to E1, on Day 1 only, that player claims if they are a cop, then nobody counterclaims, someone else is eliminated, they are NKed that night and only get one result out. If that player is mafia, the claim, the real cop counterclaims, and the mafia is eliminated and the cop gets NKed.

assuming that publishing cop = public cop (i.e. a cop whose results are made public to the thread) then why wouldn't this situation just be treated like a vig claim where nobody ever counterclaims and if someone is fakeclaiming the real PR just targets them at night? with a vig shooting the fakeclaimer, with a public cop investigating them as scum

obviously the broader point you're making might still hold true for other powerful roles but

also even still i feel if you just go with the policy of not claiming at E1 but instead when someone gives intent to hammer that it's basically always better to claim?

[Isis]

I think I got caught in a false dilemma, and the idea of not collecting the counterclaim is the stronger possible thought, and while the counterclaim is pending you do have some degrees of freedom to just vote outside of the player who claimed.

[lendunistus]

apologies for the necrobump, but:

would simulating this be feasible?

I totally understand if it isn't, coding is hell

thanks!

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah I could give this a shot

[lendunistus]

alright, thanks!