Twilight should be standardized.

[TheGoldenParadox]

Twilight seems like an incredibly important phase to the game. In Twilight, you discuss the flip, converse, give final reads before day end. If the mod is there to lock the thread, then it feels like it's essentially punishing town for... good modding? Town loses that extra step of trying to get information, and I think that's an unfair blow to a side that doesn't have information anyways. I recognize that it's supposed to be an "informal" step, but I feel like the phase should have some standardized

minimum

amount of time, whether it be 6, 12, or 24 hours, just so players (especially the flipped player) are able to say their piece after a hammer but before the mod locks the thread. I'm not sure if I'm alone here or if others think this too, so I'd love some feedback before putting it into my own modding ruleset. Am I the only one who feels this way?

[MURDERCAT]

Even waiting an hour for a stressful flip is too long

[TheGoldenParadox]

Even waiting an hour for a stressful flip is too long

Oh, that is true, but I think it's outweighed by the benefits of twilight.

[MURDERCAT]

I do think it's an interesting idea, but it could really hurt scum, e.g. if they self hammer and town has 24 hours to coordinate PRs after

[Ramcius]

Um, don't hammer? And if you think someone might quickhammer, keep person at L-2. Also, don't be a dipshit and don't wait for a hammer, when you on chopping block to give reads or whatever else you want to say before you're relegated to dead thread

[MURDERCAT]

Also, don't be a dipshit and don't wait for a hammer, when you on chopping block to give reads or whatever else you want to say before you're relegated to dead thread

I wish more people did this but players getting miselimmed usually have not acted in their best interest or the best interest of town

[Ramcius]

Also, don't be a dipshit and don't wait for a hammer, when you on chopping block to give reads or whatever else you want to say before you're relegated to dead thread

I wish more people did this but players getting miselimmed usually have not acted in their best interest or the best interest of town

Making twilight mandatory will only encourage players to repeat this kind of behavior

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah I agree

[Alisae]

No because when scum wnats to hammer they don’t want twilight they want a thread to be locked

[Jake The Wolfie]

I feel like this would be a slippery slope to "double twilight", or extra twilight outside of normal twilight.

[MURDERCAT]

We've had one yes, but what about second twilight?
I don't think they know about second twilight Jake

[Infinity 324]

punishing town for... good modding

I mean it's really just punishing scum when the mod

isn't

on right away. Which sucks, because that's gonna happen sometimes (maybe a backup mod could help with this?) but I'd like to see moving towards less twilight rather than more if possible.

[Menalque]

this website in no way needs more buffs for towns

[NorwegianboyEE]

In one of my first games on this site i was scum and hammered town because i saw the moderator was online and i assumed he would close the thread immediately, but then he left and didn't come back for like 12 hours so there were like 10 pages of the guy describing how scummy my hammer was and then detailing exactly the scum team, before finally the mod closed the thread. Lol. Twilight can be pretty OP.

[Menalque]

Wasn’t that nomination? Tbf you still went to final 3 and while we all acknowledged mutant’s reads in post I’m not sure they contributed that much to the team going down during the game

[NorwegianboyEE]

Sure but it was still pretty terrifying, thought i was dead for sure.

[Alisae]

it goes to show how much scum hates twilight the longer it goes on

[skitter30]

as scum i want twilight to end as soon after hammer as possible
and i wouldn't want to give that up to gain the time to talk as town

[Alisae]

as scum i want twilight to end as soon after hammer as possible
and i wouldn't want to give that up to gain the time to talk as town

^^^^^^

[Something_Smart]

I don't see any reason why twilight is objectively preferable to no twilight. It can be enjoyable and useful as town, though rarely, but it's often stressful and/or annoying to scum.

Standardizing it would further decrease the use of it, because one hallmark of it is that posts must be made fast or they might not get made at all, and there already is a tool that allows town to extend their discussion time-- it's called not hammering.

Plus, saying "twilight always lasts at least six hours" doesn't standardize it, because if the time six hours later falls while the mod is asleep, well guess what twilight is lasting a lot longer than six hours. (Since the players and the mod are likely to have similar timezones this will be significantly more likely than a hammer falling while the mod is asleep currently.) A better way would be to say "players are not allowed to post after X hours have passed after a hammer." X could be zero here. That's honestly not an awful rule, though it does have the issue of if people are confused about whether something's a hammer.

I would be open to mods potentially trying out some twilight rules, but I don't think that standardizing it is really necessary or useful.

[Ircher]

I agree with Something_Smart's thoughts here. In my ruleset, I explicitly state that twilight is for the moderator, not the players. If there ia something important to say before the thread closes, you should do so before a hammer occurs.

[callforjudgement]

The site has the ability to automatically lock a thread at a particular time. If you want a rule like, e.g., "twilight always lasts exactly 8 hours", then that would be a good way to implement it (as long as the mod sleeps for less than that, they can set the timer at any time during twilight as long as they happen to be awake, and the thread will then lock itself at the required time even if the moderator is asleep).

I think in most cases, though, twilight isn't particularly helpful for town. There are a few notable exceptions, though (typically cases in which town needs to discuss a breaking strategy, or an unexpectedly hammered player needs to give final reads). The "breaking strategy" case, at least, can be fixed by making the game Open Night (this is something I do whenever I run a game which is intentionally designed for town to attempt to break it). I guess the most extreme version would involve Open Night + treestump-style eliminations, but that would have a fairly major townsided effect which would need to be balanced for in the power roles.

[Gypyx]

Agreed here, twilight isn't an intended phase of the day at all, making it official doesn't even really benefit to players enjoying the game

[Jake The Wolfie]

Twilight is a consequence of the mod not being able to be online 24/7.

[Gamma Emerald]

My homesite legit bans game-advancing content during twilight. I feel like that’s honestly a good equalizer which prevents scum from having to keep things up during that phase