Term Replacement: Lovers and S* Bombers [CW: Self-Harm]

[Ythan]

I asked once about combined modifiers with targeted and self-targeting abilities and while I do agree that, as the normalcy guidelines point to the wiki, that's technically correct (at least for the different question I was asking regarding normalcy), I think we should consider changing the wording to require that only all freely targetable abilities should be made against one target while all self targeting abilities also trigger. The modifier should limit the function of the role, not which abilities can be combined by a mod.

[kuribo]

Lovers: when one dies, the other leaves town on a soul-searching journey

Fugitive Vig: murders the person of their choosing and then leaves town to avoid justice


While killing players off is fun flavor wise, don't be afraid to think outside the box

I mean, I wrote the flavors for Uncouth Mafia where the elim target blew himself up with a faulty rocket launcher, and Three Pronged Trouser God Mafia where a player performed... deeds... with a living tree and was then possessed by the... sap... as a means of replacement flavor. Don't be afraid to spare their lives and have them leave the game in other ways.

[Cook]

A good point, that.

Essentially,

lean in to your flavors a bit.

[Gypyx]

how about just suicide bomber -> Exploder? same story, without the sensitive bit

[KittyTacky]

Let me be honest, I don't think this is needed. Suicide bombers =/= suicidal people, usually.

Many of my friends are depressed, and they aren't triggered by the mere word "suicide", especially if it's part of a word combination that means something else.

[kuribo]

Let me be honest, I don't think this is needed. Suicide bombers =/= suicidal people, usually.

Many of my friends are depressed, and they aren't triggered by the mere word "suicide", especially if it's part of a word combination that means something else.

My intuition tells me the same, as does my experience as someone who has struggled with suicidal ideology in the past. I also recognize that my struggle is not anyone else's struggle, and others may bear their burdens differently than I do.

I still think Fugitive Vig or Remorseful Vig (turns oneself in to the police after committing murder) are A+ replacement theories though.

[Gypyx]

yeah i mean, not really thinking about if that's needed tbh, had a replacement idea, told it

should be Fugitive Dayvig rather, but good one otherwise yea

[T-Bone]

Based on feedback in this thread and discussions with the MafiaWiki team, we are going to sunset the suicide bomber role in favor of some alternative terms that keep the core mechanic of that role in mind. There's already a wiki page for Sacrificial, and I think sacrificial vigilante is the obvious replacement. We're looking at some other suggestions in this thread, because even though not everything suggested is a one for one replacement, I felt there were a lot of good ideas for new modifiers in general.

[Ythan]

I still quite like sacrificial.

[TemporalLich]

yeah, me too

it isn't potentially distressing (can I say triggering for this or would I be using that term too lightly?) like that other word.

[Ythan]

Honestly I'd be in favor of this change even without the problems with the current term. Bomber really is just a variant of vig and defining it with a modifier, which might also be fun with other roles too, is just a good game design move I think.

[TemporalLich]

PGO is also a Vig with a modifier - Reflexive Vigilante in this case

[kuribo]

I've never been a fan of <Modifier> Role

I like unique names

[Ythan]

I haven't heard that preference before! But interesting.

Is it the normalcy guidelines that push us to have these discrete standardized role building blocks? I think at least with the normal guidelines being able to mix and match powers and modifiers is helpful. And we could never come up with a unique term for every combination.

[kuribo]

Of course we could, with a little imagination

[Ythan]

Normal guidelines as written allow infinite combinations of approved roles and modifiers.

[kuribo]

Still no reason we couldn't name them for the most part

[Ythan]

I believe some specific variations do have standardized names. The normal guidelines do require the use of standardized names though so they'd have to be established beforehand. Which is possible.

[Gypyx]

welp, to bring in a point, a decent chunk of our normal roles are in fact already named combinations of others
Jailkeeper - combined Doctor Roleblocker
Alien - Combined Roleblocker Rolestopper
Hider - Combined Activated bulletproof Bodyguard
Mason - Informed Neighbor
Neapolitan - Simple Loyal Vanilla Cop

and that's just in normals

so really, what kuribo's saying doesn't bother me a whole lot

pedit : damnit, too slow lol

[Ythan]

Heheheh

[Ythan]

I didn't know most of those though nice.

[Ythan]

I also think it's good for mods to have a flexible way to create new unexpected role combinations within the normal guidelines.

[Gypyx]

agreed yeah !

nothing prevents to do both

[Ythan]

Agreed yeah.

[Gypyx]

yeah

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