I was thinking about the "Lovers" roles/setup and the "
Suicide
Bomber" role and well, and I think they need to be term replaced.
I know we often put trigger warnings on talks of
suicide
, so why would we send out a possibly triggering Role PM?
Preliminary Suggestions:
Lovers could Implode when their lover dies. I know it's Romeo and Juliet themed but it seems like we could do better.
S* Bomber could be a Black Hole or something? They suck in one player when they use their power?
I know it's a weak start, but I think it would be a healthy change for the site.
Last edited by Aristophanes on Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.
I thought lovers dieing in grief was already the standard--it absolutely should be.
SBomber could become a Self-Bomber, maybe. As in, instead of waiting to be killed by a nightkill and exploding, actively taking it upon themselves to explode as a bomb, taking someone out with them.
Dying in grief still seems pretty evocative of suicide. (While suicide bomber kind of doesn't, I think it has a different type of impact more similar to nightkills due to the psychology involved.)
Lovers is a pretty poorly concocted role, when trying to design setups using the mechanic I imagine the slots dying together instead, and that's such a mechanically intuitive function that I bet moderators don't/wouldn't check win conditions in between the deaths even though the metaphor seems to indicate they should.
Hmmm
What about skydivers? So that loverizer could be skydiving instructor. A pair of skydivers are easy to murder, or kill by consensus, as a pair.
Pedit: suicide bomber is currently the type of vig that has to kill itself to use its action, I think, not a type of PGO, but I could be wrong. I could see a PGO version having too much selfharm flavor
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
Aristophanes maybe CW the thread title? It's hard to discuss the former term without needing CW really..
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
In post 6, Isis wrote:Pedit: suicide bomber is currently the type of vig that has to kill itself to use its action, I think, not a type of PGO, but I could be wrong. I could see a PGO version having too much selfharm flavor
I know that, but Bomb is a role separate from S-Bomber, and a replacement term for 'suicide' for the latter needs to maintain its distinction as a role from the former, which is what I was talking about.
Self-Bomber seems to still give the same connotation as the current SBomber, uses the same first letter, but still feels easy to distinguish between it and 'Bomb'.
ok but seriously I don't think we can ever really get around this problem of S-bombers being...S-bombers. It's something that's kinda implicit in the mechanics itself.
ok but seriously I don't think we can ever really get around this problem of S-bombers being...S-bombers. It's something that's kinda implicit in the mechanics itself.
That's really inside the box thinking.
What do you think about the Implosion suggestion?
What about Paris, from the Trojan War cycle, who Abducted Helen?
Or even better, Make the role Hades and take the other player into the Underworld with you.
In post 13, Ircher wrote:What about Kamikaze Pilot for S Bomb? It's the same concept, but I think Kamikaze has better connotations.
In post 14, Ythan wrote:Kamikaze is very self explanatory. I like it.
I mean, I thought about that but I've heard it can be racially charged as well, thus not suggesting it myself. If I am offbase though, it's not a bad suggestion.
In post 13, Ircher wrote:What about Kamikaze Pilot for S Bomb? It's the same concept, but I think Kamikaze has better connotations.
In post 14, Ythan wrote:Kamikaze is very self explanatory. I like it.
I mean, I thought about that but I've heard it can be racially charged as well, thus not suggesting it myself. If I am offbase though, it's not a bad suggestion.
Yeah I thought about this too and I'm not sure myself. I think it might be fine though and hope to get some more eyes on it.
For stuff like post-restrictions or anything else where "self-death" is just you dying without any way to save you: "unavoidable death" would work here and has the mechanical advantage of being mechanically clear.
Kamikaze Pilot is a bad term replacement, not like it's any more racially charged than "self-death bomber" but doing that is just pure virtue signaling with no actual effect on reducing potential distress.
suggested term-replacements and how much I favor them:
"self-death" as a mechanic (e.g. Lover or post-restriction) - unavoidable death - kinda like this tbh, as long as it actually isn't possible to protect from
"self-death" modifier - Sacrificial - pretty decent imo
"self-death" modifier - Self-Destructing - too flavorless for a non-Normal modifier
"self-death bomber" - Self-Destructor - idk tbh
Lover death specifically - death from heartbreak - only for flavor's sake, unavoidable death works here for Normal contexts
Lover (the role) - Linked - I feel like a philistine for suggesting this my god this is terrible but at least it is a proper term replacement unlike Kamikaze Pilot. But really, there's nothing wrong with "Lover".
For something off-topic, kinda want to term replace "Prince" (can't be eliminated/exiled) to "Heir" (not gendered but still meaning the same thing I hope - then again Beloved Princess exists).
Aside from the word "suicide", a real suicide bomber bears little resemblance to someone at risk of self harm. If you absolutely must replace suicide bomber, just use "Kamikaze". There's no need to add the word "pilot" to the end of it. And the lovers thing is way too far, that makes very little sense to change.
I rank these things based on how easy it is to talk about them with my university professors (who are also into the mathematics of mafia a little bit). Removing the word lynch was a good thing, it was uncomfortable to have to say that IRL. I've talked about lovers setups with them, and it was easy. "These two players are lovers, so if one dies the other dies."
For anyone who actually struggles with self harm or trigger words, you should really look into getting an automatic word replacer addon for your browser like FoxReplace. It replaces words on every website you visit. Personally, I use it to automatically convert 24 hour time to 12 hour time.
I have an idea: how about nobody puts either of these roles in a game ever again
Then we don't have to worry about what to call them !
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
In all seriousness, I feel like lovers are thematically not really that problematic; dying in grief makes a reasonable amount of sense and it does certainly happen in pop culture even if it rarely happens in real life. If that's still too much for you, you could just say that they spend so much time together that anyone trying to kill one of them has to kill the other one too.
As for S-Bomber, Sacrificial as a modifier is probably my favorite suggestion here (you die when you use your action, so it would be a Sacrificial Vigilante). I also thought about just "bomber", which might be confused with bomb, but may still be more recognizable than an entirely new term.
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
